Transcript
It's all their baby, okay? Live live, right, live. We are live. There it is. That's quite a delay of music. Amazing, 15 seconds live from Boyer researchers. All white chess set. Oh, that doesn't work. How do they figure that out? I don't get sad now though, it's an all new wacky know, terrific. Tuesday edition of business pants joined by analysts whole Matt mascardi. Wow, you see how I changed the copy in mid-sentence from Wacky Wednesday to terrific Tuesday? I'm such a pro. It hurts. No one even noticed on today's lead, independent director who also happens to be your BFF. Called March 18th 2025. The dripping with sarcasm good game. Oh, I don't even know what that is. It's just the bad game. It's just not good game. I don't know how this game works but I kind of like a stupid. It is our show. Today is being sponsored by free flow analytics.com. Yeah, the only platform measuring board power Connections in performance for free. I wonder if Jamie dimon would hate us because no one's paying for it. So, would he be mad at us? Or would he like it that it's free, but it's zero dollars. So he can't he can't. He can't tell people to be ashamed of buying you. Yeah, because we're not now, but we're also not aggressively embracing a capitalist free market. So maybe he'd be mad at us for that too. I mean, and raise us and no boy or research within all white chess set. But we are closing in on you know, that there's d e i data and what we do, just love hate us, wait he said bring it on to D E I didn't. And I have a picture of him on my wallet in front of the Mount Kisco. JP Morgan Branch just you know, like yeah. I think that's where one of his Mansions is Right Mountain. It's like it's very well, let's get to that because we're front running around, come on. All right, here we go. Here that here. They were ready to go. All right, here's down, down down the dripping with sarcasm, good game. Where I announced things that are great. Maybe, maybe I'm being sarcastic, and, and Matt kind of arbitrarily tells me what he runs him through his sarcastic meter, and none of them scoring matters. But I also kind of, get a giggle out of it because I like, literally your worst game, I like hearing how Matt articulates his sarcasm. Here's the first good news, Maybe. Oh, actually Matt, we might be aligned on this one because we actually have been complaining about this duopoly for years and and we are ready and willing and able to take on any former clients of the duopoly. If they come our way, we will figure it out with you. We already had the data, we'll get it all ready for you. We got the apis, we got the magnet. We got all the machines, not an API is no. Here's the headline incompetent I'm in unloads on proxy advisor ISS. It's more than that though that headlines a bit of misleading. He he so here's the, here's the, the main takeaway, the JP Morgan CEO described ISS and glass, Lewis. Both as incompetent in an interview, just what just last week with semaphore on stage at black rocks, retirement Summit. What is that? What is black, rocks? Retirement Summit. It's just, it's for everybody who should retire. Yeah. Like, Jamie Diamond. So I'll give you a few Choice quotes. Jamie said that ISS and glass Lewis should be quote, gone and dead, and done with. Wow, I like that one, tough talk. Wow. Heels said, anyone who gives them money shame on you. And then, lastly, he said that the ISS and gloss Lewis have been driving companies out of the public market that one, so we can get To that. Or where do you want to start in this one? Oh, look first things first. Yeah, really upset at the headline writers. Jamie dimon unloads know. Jamie dimon says, is the you're supposed to everything. Jamie Diamond says, you screwed up the headline. Jamie dimon says is the headline because that's all that that lines are anymore James. Here's why I do appreciate the headline. Because if you read it it's clear that in the word incompetent is a quote that Jamie saying, but if you but if but if you read it out loud and you don't see it and you read it quickly and competent could be a modifier for Jamie Diamond. So it could be it could be incompetent. Jamie Diamond online. Yeah, well played well played. Um look we're in the worst possible position. I assessing glass Lewis don't get any job, right? Like Black Rock again with us, we spent years making fun of Black Rock for like pretend Wellness, we tends 16 ability, we spent years railing against the ESG acronym and the yes, she industry. We wanted to kill the acronym. We said it was all a joke like They're selling you like basically they the acronym has been misused so much that just you gotta kill it. You gotta it's just data. It's badly organized, washing the whole thing. Now, we spent like the last two years. Literally ISS. I think one are as holiest of the week last Friday, like, on Friday? Yeah. Not the first time, but you're right. Just get why? Well, because they a year ago, Nelson pouts is an activist at Disney. They say, withhold ISS, says withhold from Maria log of Messina because she doesn't belong there, she's longest tenure. She's the reason for all the succession problem, sees a huge problem. And then this year for like a week ago, they came out and said yeah. Vote for her because we don't care anymore because there's no Nelson pelts. Well, let's not forget today bail on Dei because of a presidential election, that's why they build not because he's not because of Any long-term study. But just because this is a new president, Do they do it in the fall set? Oh yeah. So now, we are in a position where Jamie dimon where we agree kind of effectively that ISS and glass Lewis are not great. Yeah, but I don't want I don't know about gone and dead and shame on you for getting the money because they can, you go just work with us, come up. But now here's the contacts. The context is a guy who said he hasn't had a boss in over 20 years. He said that like, Six months ago. Well, his board is not his boss without irony. He didn't say that as a joke, well, he is a chair of his own board. He's a chair and the CEO, man. He basically is saying the reason why the ISA ISS exists in the first place is because a million years ago a governance Revolution happened that said you know what CEOs shouldn't be chairs and board members, should attend their meetings at least 75% of the time. And you know like there's all these basic governance structures that have been ignored for years. I SS started by Bob monks, the same one of the owners of the first company I worked at. When I started in this field, the corporate library up and Main and now you have basically Small Time royalty in. Jamie dimon who sang. I haven't had a boss in 20 years saying that I assess should be dead dead. Weird thing. Hell yeah, go ahead. You got anything more say, can I cut you off? Cut me off because otherwise I'm confused, Matt and Jamie. I'm gonna speak to both you at. Once so what you're angry with is Paul says, like voting against nomination, committee chairs. If there are fewer than three women on the board which have resulted my in in a vote against of about 8%. I mean, they're absolutely toothless. These are there, there's no power, there's no punch behind any of these pulse. They've done nothing. They've contributed, no, changes. None. So, so there's like, the theory that is like, governance should be improved, you and I can agree to that theory. And when, and in that theoretical Universe, we can agree that ISS and glass Lewis have not done a good job of improving governance. There's the reality of Jamie dimon who basically is a king says he has no boss despite the fact that he supposed to have a boss in the board, the board that investors are supposed to elect who are supposed to be his boss that by definition. There is boss. Jamie Diamond is upset with ISS and glass Lewis for effectively changing proxy voting such that you no longer get 99% of the vote, you might get 97% of the vote because you're the Nom share and there's not enough women over finding even though those even the directing, no one loses, the actual numbers are 2% of directors are voted off point. Percent like this is 0. What is this? Is this is this Jamie's version of political theater. Is he is he doing this to a piece Trump? Like what is he doing here? I don't understand why this sudden outlash what. So, I assess and glass Lewis have policies that were like, you know what? You you should maybe have like a person of color on your board, or wouldn't it be nice. If 50% of the population are women? Women tend to be more educated than men, can we add a woman to the board? That that's, that's the policy that's upset with, and actually happened. And let's not forget happened, you can opt out you don't, you don't have to follow the ISS policy. Actually, both is inclusive have several voting policies that you can choose from, or you can even give them what you want. You can tell them what you want to do and plays about cookie cutter policy. Yeah, I'm confused by this menu of 70 options that you can choose look. And the worst part is I think I assess and glass looks are Pointless all so they like going, if you're going to have products the advisors shouldn't they use some data to give it some kind of actually free flow? Analytics.com has actual data on directors? Correct. That's why Beyond age and And beard length. Actually we don't have really wish we had beard length. That would be awesome. Is this does have the mark corner of the market on beard length. So now I'm like sitting Here arguing that. Are ineffective should exist. Really? What? He's art. What the problem is, they can exist. Every everything you just said every single CEO hates their investors. They don't, they don't want anyone to vote on anything. They don't want to be told what to do God, you mention this man because isn't glass, Lewis are just a middle agent. So investors can like have plausible deniability. If they do something, they just hate having adults in the room. Here's over. Here's here's the path. We're on first, there was all the big data that started to use. All these horrible dual class shares, right to control the company into box out public shareholders, right? So like for instance, Mark Zuckerberg, he controls the vote. Shareholders are not allowed to say anything about anything, and then what I call the beginning of the end was snap. So there they decided that, yes, you can buy into our IPO, but actually, you're going to have no voting rights. So really, they were just, being more honest, right? There was saying, like, you know, at Facebook, you can Tend to have voting rights, but here we're just not even playing that game. So, I think I was talking to Jamie dimon's son in law, Joey Romeo this morning. Oh, really Joey. And I agreed on is what Jamie's really doing here. Is he's starting I think he wants to eradicate just boating at all and you will meetings with shareholders voting. I, I think he just wants to, to CEO and chair. I think he wants to add a title, that CEO chair and, and head of shareholder, chief of chief of shareholders Chief shareholder, so that Jamie himself is just gonna decide all the ballot measures. We don't need stinking shareholders. Making voting decisions. I love this. This is like arguments against government, right? Like I love that. They really want investors to give them the money. The money part is awesome. Oh, somebody is good. Yes, they really want the market to price their their stock up and up and up because that means they're probably pause only positive. And you are only favorable opinions. Yeah. Like I love it. I love that part of this. Oh, but the thing that I don't like so much is your voice. Your screechy you gave me the money annoying, shrill voice, like, anything else about us. I just want you to give me the money and keep saying I'm good. I don't want you to ask any follow-up questions. It's like that scene in The Simpsons, where he goes to the library, and he said, can I have, can I have a? Do you have the phone book for a kaido? Japan. And they say, sure. And then he says, can I borrow the phone and they say yes. Is it a local call? And he stops and goes. Yes. And dials for like 30 minutes, it's exactly. Like just asked no follow up questions. Just please just let it happen. What this article left out is that he also said that he's working on a policy, the only investors who own at least six bathrooms in their home can, or will be allowed to vote at annual meeting. Yeah. When you couple this with Delaware, I think that changing their rules a Delaware like Mike Levin and Ann Lipton. Did a long podcast on the shareholder Primacy podcast about Delaware and their changes in the statutes and how basically, they're just watering down shareholder rights. How far are we from shareholders having no rights are? That's where we're heading this year? Seriously, anybody who listens to the show and I know there's two of you, right? Like so bold you well, I like both of them. I like one of the more than the other, you know? We all know which. Yeah. Listen, if you listen to the show. Yeah, you seriously. This is the only year you have to vote potentially by next year. These folks might not matter at all Delaware's changing the rules, everyone's moving to Texas because they want less shareholder rights. You're, you're in a dual class land where like, you have little Kings like Jamie dimon wildly held companies. The reason why they they are effectively Kings is because the shares are so widely held that no Coalition can form. In fact, you have Republicans, when coalitions form suing the coalitions calling it collusion, this is the only I was just say, you have to vote, I'm gonna say two, pull back a little bit more. What you have is an environment where last year the CEO of Exxon Darren Woods, suing suing his own shareholders for putting a sheriff proposal doesn't like on the Slate. And look at Apple's agenda this year. They're all anti-esg ballots, not a proposals now that we've, we've fundament. Like flushed out Pro governance Pro environment pro-social proposals. Like we are, we're shifting away. We're shifting out, we're shifting here. So now it's just political theater in nonsense. I don't even want to think of it as pro-environmental pro-social. I want to think of it as those are costs, right? When you're underwater, environment becomes a cost. When you're people all quit because you know, like you just said, Dei doesn't matter and you hate brown people like that becomes a cost like it's reduced productivity. It's a cost. Here's what I want to offer. Yeah, if you listen to the show and you send the show around and anybody who calls on the back of this show, send us an email saying, you know what, you've got a whole bunch of data. We can we can vote this year, we can vote on the data. Anybody comes at me, you got an ISS contract, we will price. What we do at 20% of your ISS contract period. We'll give you a data dump so that you can actually vote this year. Totally differently. Yeah, I want to see it happen. I don't think anyone's gonna get to do this anymore. I'm really actually concerned only before we move on before you give me a score for this this great. But ridiculous new development in our world. I want to address Jamie's statement that ISS is driving companies out of the public market. Again we are in an age now where we get to just say stuff. Yeah, we do. Yeah well No wrong button, but I just want to briefly talk about this. If it gets too, we can move on quickly. First of all, the actual decline in public company, started around 1996. That's when you start to see an official and it listed companies. So I don't know if this has anything to do with the ISS and glass Lewis the other, the other maybe we could who we could be blaming who Jamie could be, blaming is maybe the even the SEC itself, because don't forget that socks. The socks. The sarbanes are actually laws that started in 2003 those who have contributed to a dip. So maybe we could even blame in Ron. Maybe it's enron's fall. Yeah, but here but beyond that, I do want to point out this paper that I read this morning. This is out of the tuck business school from Dartmouth is that they actually have something called, they looked at merger or adjusted listed Dynamics, that's a horrible. Mouthful of dirtiness. The reality is, according to them is that this number is not declining because of is Us in class loads. It's it the numbers declining, because of the environment of mergers and Acquisitions that we have been in since the year 2000. That's the only reason why you see companies disappearing and going offline. That's it. Jamie, but go ahead and just say stuff Jamie, something just say, oh I know everyone every headline writer loves Jamie Diamond says but come on Jamie you I mean you're you're the CEO of JP Morgan. You gotta have some facts, just Jamie. Next time you get on stage just say like like you're still backtracking from your your telling people to shut the fuk up about returning to the office, right? Like you basically women, you're just the people in the middle, the women. Yeah. The people. Yeah. The people of no power. Yeah. But look the things that you're complaining about is a you don't like somebody saying something about you at all right? Like you don't want them to say anything unless it's your amazing like that so you don't have a boss. So everybody else what you really want, you're not just talking to your employees about coming back to the office. You're telling everyone on Earth to shut the fuk up. And let you be master of the universe. That's that's part of what's Happening Here. Yeah, I mean this guy actually literally said I know you're putting out. He said he has had no boss for the last said he had no balls like like that's what skeletors says in He-Man, right? Like The other thing is all of these regulations and things you don't like, do you know why they that, where they came from for the most part. You know why why? Yeah, where. So, in 2001, Enron collapsed. The reason why we have a lot of this stuff is because there was so much fraud and corruption like a boards and governance, there was no full of Joey Romeo's. Yeah. Everyone there was like noble musk and Joey Romeo. Yeah, no. CEO had a boss in 2001 sort of like Jamie dimon now. Okay. And then in 2008 we have a financial crisis which if lest I remind you congratulations on, Surviving it simultaneously. You were also involved in it like she you made a lot of money doing the things, right? You may have survived it and everyone Heralds the fact that you survived the thing that you helped create that sunk the economy for most people. They're companies and people that have not rebounded since 2008. Like that's, that's yeah, you're Referencing it even more disturbing trend, is it why does it? Why when you get to a billionaire level of wealth, is it when you start complaining about the system, why why are you then angry about everything? If your Trump musk, your Jeff Bezos. Your Jamie Diamond. What? Why, why are you so upset about all the structures and just so we're clear if we want to make it personal Jamie, was it not JP Morgan, who who had the London whale one guy in London who basically had a massive transaction that almost sunk like an entire portion of JP Morgan's business. They they had such lacks internal controls that led to new regulations about from the SEC about how you communicate with one, another regulations that have cost these companies millions of dollars, it was the same time around the same time as Libor manipulation, when y'all were manipulating interest rates that we pay because it was in your benefit. So, Now, you're really upset that ISS and glass Lewis took your nominating chair from 98% down to 96%, because you don't have a brown person on your boy. That's what we're arguing over. That's the part of this is the most frustrating. Matt, we've talked about this for way too long. What's your score? Come on, score. I love it. It's 10, it's an ironic 10. I mean, it really is. I mean, Jamie is giving us this one and I don't have a boss or two or the for any true governance, nerds like Jamie's delivering. Let's just say, I know it's like this, you just put a webcam on him and let him say stuff like all day long. I think it would be great. All right, let's get it goes, all done. It goes all done here. We can go. Quickly, Elon Musk says Larry Ellison and Jeff Bezos are among the smartest people he's ever met. Oh no. First of all, that's such a dig at Bill Gates like I think so. So you already going to who he's not he was not citing is I mean such a snub isn't it? And like and clearly like he worked with Peter Thiel who then they did not they get along the same kind of a falling out, didn't they? Anecdotes go. So so it doesn't like him. Not listed there. Donald Trump, his current, his current wife. Yeah. Or Zuckerberg. You want to fight Zuckerberg? I got no they wanted to fake fight, right? Like fake fight. Okay. Because he said like, yeah. Let's fight. But look this is this is the 10 because I love that. The middle school boys. All just kind of like Larry Ellison's. Buying like all Hawaii. Jeff Bezos is like he had his midlife crisis, traded his wife, his wife who got him there in for like a weather woman and he got buff. All the sudden you know, musk is basically saying like these are my middle school Heroes. As a middle school boy, let's hear. And here's why I chose this headline. I forgot to mention in our last article, I did it because Jamie dimon has referred to Elon Musk as our modern day. Einstein, this is comparison, you must It. I like that. Yeah, it's kind of sadly. You're comparing him to a Jewish man who fled Europe because of a lot of created. The theory of relativity was that in our 17th of the Jamie dimon says, webcam or what their headlines that they've stopped, manufacturing cyber trucks at Tesla because the side's are falling off. That's one of the headlines this week of all the crap that goes badly at Tesla. Also, just one of the things side off the Cyber truck, that's just one side. All right, next headline, supposed to be Bulletproof, the new prime minister of Canada Mark Carney. The headline is currently eliminates Canada's consumer carbon tax. So this so he's a member of the liberal party. This elimination really is becoming, because the conservative party has been complaining about the carbon tax and Carney said that it's become. To divisive. So I just wanted to throw around some love that. Even the even the Canadians are now bowing into like anti-esg presses go. If you are pro accountability Pro, right? Like, if you are pro like you know what, like, you know, I want a bunch of plastic ship from China, I should have to pay the externality of getting that plastic ship from China, right? Like, if you are pro that like personal responsibility, personal accountability, accountability from government accountability from corporations. Where do you go anymore? Where do I live Iceland? But then you're close to the Greenland and that's gonna become a war zone. Soon does have volcanoes that they were like they care about you. Those volcanoes I'm giving this one a zero because there's no irony here. This is just sad, this is sad. I don't know how about this for a big dripping with sarcasm, good game headline, FanDuel FanDuel. You know, FanDuel right? Yeah, yeah, everybody commercial on a podcast, betting. Like Las Vegas on your phone. FanDuel launches a streaming show about the dangers of gambling. Yeah, I mean, what really what why is this allowed? How is this possible? Why where's ISS to stop this madness? No, no, come on. Jamie, maybe you can help with this. This is just said anything. It would just mean that like get the amount of gambling on the platform went from 99% to 98.99%. Did you know, fanduel's oh 18% of fanduel's own? But the fox Corporation, you know, that speaking of Elon musk's buddies, James Murdoch, he's one of the board member. I can't wait till there's full integration though. Like why FanDuel isn't in my cyber truck while I'm on my way to Mars, like isn't this isn't the whole direction of the sort of like, man, flake us fear like converging on, okay, a full Streaming integrated dunk on trans people like go to Mars. You billionaire Universe. Like, isn't that a thing? Well, yes, and according to our next headline, it is becoming more of a thing. I mean I want to know like 10, this is yeah, 10. Okay, here's the next headline and then I'll ask you a question. The next headline is really in the same vein. Robin Hood is launching a prediction Market Hub which basically allows traders to bet on specific outcomes like predicting sports and entertainment to politics the economy election. Just basically everything. Matt why when am I going to be able to bet on whether my daughter finishes her broccoli at? Oh no I want to bet on everything I want to go bankrupt just in the most mundane. I just I'm ready. I'm ready to just transfer myth over to companies like Robinhood where two co-founders Vladimir ten of and buys you. Bought control about 70% of the Voting Rights. I just want to push my wealth over to them, so I don't, I don't want to have any say, over what goes on there. I just want to give them my money. How do we do that? Like can, what, what was, what would be the most mundane? That would make me happy to go bankrupt. Having bet on I, well, like, I actually have a question for you. I was actually looking at the proxy statement at Robinhood and I have, here's what I wonder. Okay, first, I'm gonna give you a little bit of background. So, two co-founders at Robinhood Vladimir antenna. I think he's the CEO buys you bought. He's a, he's no longer the chief creative officer. I don't know what he does, he just sits there and owns that I think I know what he's doing. So they don't they own two thirds of boating power? And not because they owned 2/3 of the shares, they own two thirds of the voting power because of a ridiculous duel cluster system. That analyzes people, not named Vladimir and buy you. But here's what I learned Vladimir's personal security services paid by shareholders is about 1.5 million dollars last year. Oh, by you's also paid by shoulders, but 700,000 dollars, so baseball, who was more likely to be kicked in the balls first. Is that, is it the guy that people hate more and needs more? Security or the guy that security. What do you predict who's gonna get closer to him, right? Really good. Him less heated but so What do you think? That's a really good question. I think that's an hour. 19 of Jamie dimon says, he picks who's gonna get kicked in the balls. What's your score on this one? Robin basically letting you bet on anything, but we're getting this one because this one would be only this one. They were, they actually need a streaming show about the prediction markets, Hub, dangers, that's. And in order to push this, wow, the CEO gets kicked in the balls by his own security team next headline, AI that can match humans at any task will be here in five to ten years, according to Google deepmind, CEO and a companion headline. So maybe it's maybe we're gonna get there even faster, or maybe they're cheating. Human intelligent sharply declining. That's Something. Yes, so this isn't that make it easier for AI to catch up. It's like, it's like when that, you know, the TI-82, when we were in high school, how they like hacked it and figured out how to program all the answers to the test on, like, on the TI-82, that is a little bit of achieve. I mean, all I know is I read headlines like this and I wonder like why is why are we the only company that is about the people that control companies that are developing AI? They're going to be smarter than us soon and that we're all getting done. Where were the only ones who were worried about that and creating data to help people vote these directors out if they're if you don't you know what why are we the only one question actually if if AI becomes smarter than humans in the next five to ten years and looks around and realizes that humans are being run by a bunch demands like a sphere, right? Like the bunch of like teen boys. Yeah. Tilian teenagers, wouldn't AI be like? That is not a fishing. You should really. Done by teenage boys, right? So it maybe AI is our state or so you're saying that AI will be the new ISS. Is that what you're saying? And they'll make better. They'll recommend that we get rid of tealy and teenagers from boards. Can you imagine what I'm not going? I'm giving human intelligence. Sharply declining a 10 for sure. That makes you seem smarter know. I think a part of it and I, I'm gonna give AI that can match humans at any task because zero, oh, I think they're cheating. Here's a, just a bizarre story at a fortune. Only we would care about this. Don't you tell me what I care about? Bored bored, bored burnout is a major risk to all companies. Here's how they can protect their top directors. This is a strange one here. They have three ways to protectors. Yeah you ready? Or you want to say something? First, I want to say, are they measuring top directors? Is that I don't know what they're doing here and I don't measure core to seven. I don't know how you measure any of this. I mean, you're talking about what's the average director making now, like 300,000 dollars for a few meetings. So we did the math, they make on average like you're taking the account the amount of time that by all accounts. And there's no big study on this, but by all accounts and all anecdotes that we could find, they make the same amount as the c-suite makes on it, an hourly basis. Yeah. So what do we? And then they, then they sit on three boards. So like they're making three, C Suite, salaries, like so here are things here through these coverings are article first. You can they they can they can take control of their time. So they saying that boards should have evaluate how they use their meeting time. Oh yeah. Right. And they also said, that directors are craving more time without company management present that. That's good. Yeah. But but again like they're just gonna they're not spending, the CEO was the chair. Yeah. Which is every company which is every But yeah, so I I don't know about this one, the directors should evaluate how they're used their meeting time. So what is that mean? Exactly, like what? So they should they should I don't know how this. Why does that contribute to burn out? It just showing up for a two-hour meeting. I don't really understand this, I think what they're actually saying, I okay, I'm gonna read between the lines of that suggestion. Go ahead, which is when directors, because this is not a return to office situation. Directors are ostensibly are in the same room with each other now, occasionally occasionally throughout the year there, they're spending more of the time when they, like, they have a meeting from two to five PM or whatever. Right? They spend, I can smell the burnout. Yeah, go ahead of the three hours. They spent two hours and 45 minutes talking about Joe's golf game. Oh, you see where I'm going with this actually, they cover that in the third section, but go ahead. Yeah, I think they're just spending all of the meeting time on frivolous nonsense. Pensacola conversation about what movie. They saw their favorite Starbucks Bank, believe it or not, and I'll get to that one right now. That actually, that's one of the remedies for preventing burnout. So the third, the third tactic is here for the directors to stay human, right? And they say that many people who sit on several boards at once, could be facing pressures as directors and in their personal lives. So, they're suggesting that you check in with your fellow directors, to see how they're doing emotionally know, but that conflicts with taking control of your time. Yeah, I just like that. That your own choice to sit on four different boards that pay you 300,000 dollars, a pop to show up a few times a year is making you feel burnt out all. So also you need like a check in, right? Check it and the second thing they suggest is that you should zoom out, they suggest a boards onboarding process shooting a high level briefing on the company's position relative to competitors in the Field. I mean you think you want to know like what your company does and who their competitors are like. I'm so these article I don't I don't understand. So actually, this is why they're mad at ISS, is it because it's stuff like this. You know what you would be really burned out if every meeting you went to, you didn't understand what anyone was talking about because you had no idea what the company did and here. But then when you realize that shareholders will never vote you out. And in fact, there is no mechanism in the marketplace other than the free flow analytics that measures performance that no one's going to be paying attention to you. Anyway. Why would you feel burnt out? What I worry about. Like look, I know bored. In fact, I acutely am aware. That board members are people. I've met some sure and we map the fact that they're connected to each other and all sorts of ways that idea the same pressures that we all have, you know like a bricklayer who has to go to his job in order to make money to feed his family for the Band-Aids. He's crushing his knuckles with those bricks. Yeah. Just barely making ends meet potentially, you know? Like there are no, there's no middle class so I get it. We're all a bunch of snowflakes. You all make so much fucking money. The reports are the Tesla's board. They're bored. So over 100 million dollars of stock in the last two months. Oh man, that's the next, it's you're reading my mind today. That is my very next headline, but go ahead. So I don't. So what do you think? Give me a score. This is incredible or portrayed from Circus Circus, right? I am just I am nailed it today. I it's almost like I made this one up. I used to do a onion ESG home for LinkedIn. It's almost like, I wrote this story. I just don't, I don't, I don't understand, I don't know what we're talking about problem. Is, I would, if you haven't read Damien's, good newsletter, onion pieces. They were not only fabulous but now they're not satire right now. Everything's coming true like another dimension that we what are the things are data? Does that is so important, is that We measure the influence of board members on boards. And what we're doing is we're identifying a very clear pattern in the United States, which is that they are. So, the influence is so lopsided to two or three directors, that two or three directors. Generally control about up to, like 70% of board power, like most, so that you have six or seven people who do nothing, they're not necessary, they have no voice because you're sitting opposite Jamie dimon. This is not like in Europe where we see boards that are really incredibly balanced. Like, there's an incredible balance of power on European boards, but not here in America, so I don't know why they're so burnt out there. But let's move on. It's exhausting having to go to the meetings. So you reference this next one. Let's get right to it. Here's a headline, as Tesla tanks. Musk's hand picked board. Chair is doing just fine now, finally, so they're referring to Robin Denton home in the fact that she is she is already cashed out more than a half a billion dollars of stock. And I like this quote from Nell minow, she says, very simple. She's just paid too much. That's I mean, look. I mean no, no is better at this than we are because we've already spent the half-hour talking about this stuff and she's just gets right to the right to the heart of the issue. But yeah, that's but this is good for Robin because Here. I mean, right? She the pressures off to provide oversight because why would you want to get rid of the cash cow? That is your Your Meme stock boss, right? Who cares. What the company is tanking and and and and people are setting fire to headquarters and it's really hard for me like investors keep voting these people in like I don't I at some point investors say, like oh yes, there's like fires, they like fire, they like marshmallows. They love when there's widespread arson against a particular product. And I guess they like who doesn't show up to his job, they like not saluting CEOs, they like CEOs that fire half of the government Workforce, like all that stuff. Everyone's a big fan of a board who says, yes to whatever the CEO says, so they can make a half a billion dollars themselves, like it does. I do question the SEC and all the the listening I forget which listening exchange Tesla's on whether it's NASDAQ or New York Stock Exchange. Does it matter? I on Earth are you letting Tesla call her independent? How do you let her? How How do you let them get away with that? How does someone who's made a half a billion dollars? Actually, I think it's up to like 600 and something million dollars. How was she independent from the company? How in the way that I'm independent from you right now? Okay this way this one's a five I but I do want to add this. There's another headline I saw just today and by the way, all these headlines are just from the past two days. Just so everyone knows we're not even done. Yeah, this is the world around you when you're not paying attention. But this is a, there is a follow-up headline. I have a question for you. It is man tries to set Tesla chargers chargers on fire accidentally sets himself on fire as well. I don't like, but is that man? Is that Elon Musk? They're talking about, is he the one trying to set test on fire cuz he's doing a very good job of it, you see? That is I think that's the arsonists. Okay, all right. Try a little Elon Musk humor. There we only have two more headlines for all of you hating this very sarcastic. Good game. This is a nice. Wow. Moment here, this headline CEOs. Say they feel stuck as they wait, as they wait for the dust to settle from Trump's on again off, again tariffs. So, yeah, I mean, you gotta feel for these years, right? I mean, the backdrop to, this is the all CEOs. Pay is going up about 30%. Seems this proxy season bonuses are through the roof this year, so but they're feeling stuck. It's hard. It's hard, operating under Trump and Matt what a surprise, that that Trump is so confusing to understand, right? Yeah. We thought we just kissed his ass and then it would be fine. And by the way, like what kind of a CEO it doesn't anticipate changes in like government and elections and like you know, you're not your company is not. Based on on the senator is from Nebraska, it's a little bit more like that's not the CEOs job, that's the board's job and they're burnt out from that to each other and checking in. And since the CEO is also the chair anyway that the CEOs actually setting the agenda of the board meeting. So what does it really matter what you say? This, this doesn't feel sarcastic to me. This feels like, like anger-inducing Wham time. I just don't know how. I don't know how we're letting CEOs. Get away with a lot of time. When did everybody? But like, do you remember when they used to call liberal snowflakes? Yeah. When when did everybody in a position of power? Turn into a victim? Like, yeah. If you, if you, if you hit a billion dollars of well, then you can play about the system and all the structures holding you back. If you get raises and I'm making 30 million dollars a year, you complain, that the operating environment is tricky. I mean, I know tricky. It's not in the headlines right now that Amazon workers are still peeing in bottles because they don't get like breaks right. Riding my job. Tricky Tricky. Heels are feels stuck and Boards, feel burnt out and, and Elon Musk subset with all these regulations. Jamie dimon says, this is bad. I wish they were dead. Like, what you think about you most powerful people and they're all complaining? They're all complaining about something. What's your score on this one? Sorry, this was there too. This one too. This is, I don't know why, I don't know what. Finally, let's just end on the Absurd for the the sarcastic. Good game for March, 18th 2025, I don't know why. I just like this one. Here's the actual headline. Bear with me, it's long. This is from Yahoo finance. The board of directors of harvia have decided on a new performance period for the long-term performance, share plan for the key employees. Okay? That's the whole headline. It's not a very witty one, it's not very however, but they've decided on a new performance period. Okay, that's great, right? Okay. And here's the, here's the text of the story. The board of directors of Harvey has decided on March 10th 2025, to continue the long-term performance, share plan for the management team and other key employees for the performance period. 2025 to 20 Yeah. Just continue. Yeah, just doing it again. This is what I, Don't know. I Just decided to continue it. That was that's not from an 8K like that. You didn't meaning you didn't link that to some 8K that you saw that was just like terminating. Okay? Because it usually you do announce these things in AK. Yeah. But the question I have is where who in the chain was like this is definitely press release worthy. Like we, we need to actually put this on platform, so people know that that we're going to keep things the same. Like we just what make sure everyone must see. We just should have to ask workers to check in every week to say what they're doing. I don't like, hey, we just decided on something. We're just we're gonna keep doing the old things, like the decision. We made is no decision at all like that. I wouldn't eat. That's about right, that's right, that's the that's that one's right. The other one there. You have anything else to add? Or can we get out? Oh my God, I think we added enough things. Well, James Jamie's Falls. Jamie Dimensions says the show needs to ask. What did I score? What was my fight? Do you count my 100 score? If you keep talking? I can. Oh, yeah. That really throws off that throws it off. I think we average is gonna be like a 40. Yeah. That was that was a good game sarcastic Edition. That's it on a relish. I'm an old soulmate Scotty. We are free float. That was the most point was game but you want to know what's not ISS ISS? Clients gloss, Lewis clients, come to us, I'm gonna say it again. If you are an ISS or glass Lewis client, you heard this show you reference that you heard this show, you come to us. You want a full day to dump so you could vote differently. We will give you at 20% of the cost of whatever class whichever one's cheaper. You have analysts that you can actually pick up the phone and call to and we'll talk to you. And by the way, we're not just joking here. Matt. You're, you're already in talks with at least one potential client or client that is actually about to switch over to talk about switching over. Because of all these research I'm not just making this up, specifically, we are replacing Isaac here for you. So we have thoughts, we can do it all. We're gonna have a double header on Friday until then good. Bye.