Transcript
Oh, there we go. Come on. Hey, live from your ESG. ESG, ESG, ESG, d, e, i d e, i climate change, climate change, climate change global warming, global warming ESG Dei. It's a business pants Friday, show here. At Valentine's Day Studios. Featuring analyst Hall. Matt mascardi. That's me. On today's. Weekly wrap up. Corporate abolitionists. The Gulf of stupidity, the s in ISS stands for shity. I didn't know that and Denny's Truth bomb. I did see that Denny's story, I'm excited for that. Yeah, our show today is being sponsored by free flow analytics.com. The only platform measuring board power connections and performance for free. Before we signed on, Matt, you were wondering Let the people clap first. All right, you gotta clap for free flow analytics. You were wondering why do certain proxy advisory companies like ISS and glass Lewis? Why do they wait for an activist investor to stand up before they start kind of looking into board members right? Looking the directors it's because Matt it's because they're not spending enough time on free full analytics.com, because that's the only place where they can articulate the performance of board members. Yeah, there it is. So just spend more time there just spend more time there. I mean it's all. So I SS it's also free for like you can get like half the day to for free for it too. You could call us and or free full analytics and pay them for like the full day to set make your job. Really, really easy set policies that are really, really like algorithmic. Nice one. Yeah, like he didn't depend directors, been there for a decade, you vote. No, I got a bunch of them, I can't. I just say, like, we do another show called proxy countdown. If you don't listen to that show, it is basically, we trade annual General meetings, like sporting events, like, you know, direct your transactions, like moving and trades and all the stuff. Damian you came up with maybe the greatest ratio in the history of ratios on our last one, which was CEO relocation fee to to median, employee salary. I love that like that. You covered somebody who is just brought on as a CEO, the relocation payment that that person is getting to go from like, wherever they were to wherever headquarters is, was nine times the median, salary of an employee. That's insane. That's insane. Here doesn't, I mean, I didn't even really stop to even think about it 300,000 dollars to relocate. Like what is a gold-plated U-Haul? Like, what is that? What's that money for? I don't know. I don't know. They, they only use peacock feathers to feather dust everything, but when they break down, I don't. I'm unclear about that payment. All right, you ready to do today is wrap up. Weekly wrap up wrap this week, baby story of the week. I went very ESG with my stories of the week, kind of old-fashioned. You know, okay, you know like this. Let's start with the Goldman Sachs. Goldman this one. What you doing it before? I even say you said Goldman Sachs that was enough. This one really got me. I've been like stewing on this headline all week so I had to include it Goldman. Sachs abandons Dei rules saying. It has quote served its purpose. Well so says that so here's you said that it's Richard, no D. He's the CEO of Goldman Sachs International and a member of the banks management committee. He told the BBC okay? This is what also really gets me. He told the BBC that the bank had scratched its board diversity requirement because of legal developments. And the fact that it had achieved its function. So that's both Matt, it's both Oh, there we go. I love that Richard Noddy. How did you measure served its purpose? I look I just want to know like this is everything that has Developments. Okay, to be why don't you just say we're terrified? We're scared, we're scared. Yeah, I can I can at least maybe be okay with. We're really afraid of trump and we are sycophants. We're afraid we want is money like just don't care about really mean. You don't mean legal developments. You mean we really like we are like on our knees to kiss his ass right now, okay? But the second part, D. I his served its purpose. Served is purpose, it's over, it's over done and we don't need it anymore. Can you prove that prove the purpose? It served. What did it serve? How did you measure it? What was success? Are you successful? Because my guess is you can't measure anything Richard Noddy. Nothing, of course not. And how do Richard, how do we? And, you know, let's forget the Optics of the fact that he's a South African investment banker. But let's forget that, how about that? What about the research Richard? Like, maybe doubling your diversity. Quota will actually help things even more, maybe it'll serve the purpose. How do we know like you've spent no time looking into the short or long term ramifications of anything about this policy? Yeah, actually study policies. And you guys outcomes are doesn't Goldman Sachs like run Monte Carlo, simulations of, like, all sorts of markets and everything and whatever internal usage. Yeah. Use your AI Monte Carlo simulator to say, what if all of Goldman Sachs was black women like, would it be better? Would it be worse? Has it served its purpose? Like let's let's do some actual data crunching. Let's figure something out. Maybe, maybe Goldman Sachs is served its purpose as a private organization is just enter the public. Just wow. Break up just socialist of you. That's Second Story of the week. Billionaire Airbnb. Co-founder is said to take role in musk's government initiative. Of course, that's Doge and who they're referring to is actually a bit more than that Matt. He's a board member at Tesla. Yes. That's Joe Gabby. So how you pronounce his name? Joe Gabby. And I like this little detail of the story. He arrived at the DC headquarters in a black SUV with a three-man security. Choices. Are you making that you feel like you need three men to prevent normal people from coming to get you like maybe you should stop and think about what some of your actions like what are you doing to stakeholders around you that you need to be protected? Like what's going on? Joe? Let me let me do a quick like three. I were to describe. Joe Gabby. Yeah, go ahead. He looks vaguely. And I do mean vaguely like, Will Forte like he or maybe like, you know, like he's just he's like Elon Musk. He actually looks almost looks a little like me, like, I'm like an ugly version of Joe. Gabby, a generic, North, American, white bear, generic white guy, and let me ask you something. Do you think anyone anywhere walking down the street would say, Hey, look, it's Joe gabbia. Look, there's nobody but is this not a sign of her like butting oligarchy that he thinks that a, he'll be recognizing that he needs protection from like, average citizens? I mean, that's just tells me everything. And this is the same. Joe Gabby Amanda. I will remind you that that Tesla swears is an independent director. Yeah, yeah. No, he's super independent. He that black SUV. Not a Tesla though so credit where credit Joe's. Not stupid, right? I mean he recalled every year, he's a billionaire he's not an idiot. All right then the next headline, this is from Bloomberg. The headline is sustainable, investors flee references to climate change. That's my that's my opening remarks. At the top of the show. I like this little, this little anecdote. The article tells us for more than a decade investment chief of green Alpha. Investments Garvin jabusch would show a chart of the planet's Rising temperatures when pitching investment ideas to clients saying, they could help save the planet and still make money. Now, we saying, I've given up on anyone ever caring about that. Oh no, I mean, what are we? I, I don't. So this is the crossroads are at Matt that they also talked about engine number one, remember that? That sort of famously? Well, it took the credit for for it was not an activist shape up. Yeah, activist shake up on mobile, but now, they have scrubbed their language. So, so here's where we're at Matt. This is where this is, what's confusing is that like are the green washers just scrubbing the greenwashing or are they making actual policy change? Or what's actually happening? Because there was another article saying that basically the way Elon Musk and doge is targeting, Spending on climate projects, is to just their searching for keywords like climate change. Yes. They're just, they're just. So what's really happening? Are we all? Yeah, what's happening? Do you know what is happening? Is these, this is a asshole of the week. So we're gonna come back to this anyway. Stupid. And finally, the fourth star of the week is I'm calling it Mr. Blowhard the Beloved, Jamie Diamond. Jamie Diamond is really added this week. First, there's this headline, Jamie dimon is fed up with remote work, another headline, JPMorgan CEO Diamond, slams return to office pushback saying, I don't care how many people sign that fucking petition. That's the actual quote. I like to remind you Matt that the proxy statement brags about just how the performance of JP Morgan, including things like Revenue up to 162 billion dollars, a record for the sixth consecutive year. Growth across all of its Market leading lines of business record. Net income, you don't understand. It could have been 160 million if they were there. Yeah, we're not getting that report Matt. That we not seeing that just saying Jamie dimon. Also, reportedly says he'll cut some stupid Dei cost at JP Morgan. Chase what that is? The other headlines says the he wants to cancel some Dei spending after the banks spent billions on Racial Equity. I was never a firm believer in bias, training, he said, oh, okay. Now we're not a firm believer. Yeah. So here's why I include this, is that if you look at the companies pay plan and its proxy statement half of the playpen, pay plan is dedicated to something called the how, right? There's the, what, and the how, right? And one of the very clever, very one of the key elements of the, how is, teamwork, and Leadership, and that includes things like delivery on internal Dei initiative, so they they ostensibly are getting paid for this stuff, but they get to all so call it stupid and and say that they never were firm, believe I look. It's just, it's just, it's all verbal gymnastic games now, right? It's just all, it's all just game. It's all the theater. He's saying that, like, how much do we think the stupid Dei costs cost, right? Like, are we talking about hundreds of millions of dollars? Well, here's the thing away, right? Like If we're honest, well here there is a, there is a section of our last proxies statement that says about called advancing racial equity, and I'm reading from the proxy statement says, by the end of 2023, we reported nearly 31 billion dollars of progress toward our five-year 30 billion dollar racial Equity commitment to help close the racial wealth gap, an advanced economic occlusion, among historically, undeserved communities in the US. So I don't really know what that's referring to. Is that investing in? Yeah, that's investing in stakeholder communities. Yeah. When he's talking about stupid costs, I think he's talking about like JP Morgan, the bank and like, never a firm believer in bias, training. All right? Like so what he's hiring? If I'm reading between the lines, Means JP Morgan is basically paying to administer some bias training across their you know, we're experts for a workshop. Yeah there are like like every Workshop that every company you've ever been to, this is another workshop with some experts who are trying to get you to actually do something that you mostly as an employee. Don't care about anyway. Yeah, he said like, this is the dough, the Doge attitude towards everything. Everything is a line item veto, right? Everything is like a red line like that. 50 dollars is just too much. Here's what I'm getting at. Like the the d e a stupid, internal Dei spend. Is it more or less than Jamie diamonds? 8.3% pay raise in 2024. Like he made, he made 39 million in 2024 and there's another like three million increase on the year before. I was going to say that the magical part of their plate paid plan, is that it kind of miraculously leads to the same increase every year. It's just the way it works and it's not just Jamie dimon. Matt the six named executive officers combined made 145 million dollars. So it's their paying all their Executives really well. He's done he says like he doesn't like spending money on some stupid shit, right? Like that's a quote. Why is stupid by the way? What's so stupid about it? Because he deems it stupid? Is it smarter to give Jamie dimon? Who is a billionaire after years of being JP Morgan CEO? Another 3 million dollars. Is that the is that the where is the stupid shit? Can we have metrics? That says, stupid shit. Like, is there a bucket there? Like why isn't it in the 10K that says, stupid shit, we spent money on and then let me look through a line item like line by line and say oh yeah that was stupid like it's a hired that guy it's the crash statement of an asshole. I'm just gonna say it straight out because what other stupid shit is JP Morgan quote unquote wasting its money on. Let's see those things. You're just, you just focusing on on Dei initiatives, you just focusing on bias training. I mean, that's your, that's what stupid. That's that's just crass. I'm sorry. But I mean, he also said like two weeks ago that bring those 100% behind this, bring it on. Like, every like we are all. In fact, there was a headline in Forbes. It's a JP Morgan's Jamie dimon stands firm amid conservative pressure to dismantle Dei. Now, there's some stupid shit. Yeah. Well this is where these guys. This is why I include the story and and why I included the one from Goldman Sachs. Because what they don't get is why this stuff matters. Where when you're being quoted in the public of saying it's stupid, I never really believed in the first place. It's a waste of money. Those things resonate, you're you know, you're the CEO of JP Morgan Chase. I mean, you're you're horrible opinion resonate, so yeah, all right, all right, options here Goldman Sachs abandoning their Dei rule saying the best part is that it's served. Its purpose, billionaire, Airbnb, co-founder Joe Gabby's that this story would be arrives in Washington with three man. Security detail, not that he actually took a role in the government two. Seems like too many two, seems like a lot. I feel like having anyone in the SUV with him is he could have driven his own SUV into the parking garage. She's no one knows who he is. Sustainable investors, flea references to clim Change and Mr. Blowhard Jamie dimon says, I'm this one's easy for me. I'm going with Goldman Sachs, okay. It's just too much. It's just too much of a. Yeah, just the fact that you said it served its purpose with no evidence of how that purpose was served. This is the constant here, everybody says, like the age we're living in, right? Like you just say the thing with no evidence of that thing being true. No short-term, studies, no longer term studies nothing. It's like saying we need to go back to the meritocracy. Well, okay, what was that? Exactly what measure did you use to say? It was a meritocracy and now it's not because every measure suggests the exact opposite is true. It's more. Meritocratic to focus on Dei then, not to focus on it, right? Yeah, good. The data suggests that so now you're saying it's served its purpose. Prove it prove your naughty or good naughty or whatever your name is. I just love that that Goldman Sachs was the first one to talk. On both side of his mouth because of legal developments. And because its function. Yeah, it is really good. It's really good. Yeah, they just met they just both sort of happened on the same day of the week. I remember waking up. It was Tuesday, there was a new legal development and I was like, oh good we're done with this thing all. So all right, let's do what do we are? Good list, good. I don't feel that sad this week, so good news, feels good. In fact while you go first, then I'm gonna say this, I'm gonna say this, this is the greatest, I feel like we've ever done. No offense. Sorry the data Queen. Okay. Who was like the master of the good list? No she wasn't just pick batteries. I think this is the greatest ever so I'll go first, here's the headline, I'm just gonna read the headline Mexico's. President Schein bomb said her government would ask Google to make Mexican America pop up on maps of the US. Yeah, well, yeah, I guess that's what happens when your president is a climate scientist woman. I just love the, like, like the Google's policy because after Trump, renamed it Gulf of America, Google's policy is, well, if that's what the government calls it when you're in America then well, that's what will show on the map and Google said that they said that's our policy. We just show, whatever the country, you know, the government says in that country. So now she is saying, we don't want to call it United States of America. We're calling it Mexican Americans America. I love that. Here's a real question. Why does God hate me? Specifically, what, how does Mexico have a Jewish woman climate scientists for president? And I'm and I live in America. How did this happen? Oh, you could move to Mexico? Can I is it, is it actually it's possible. I, I believe actually, now we're forcing them to take everyone in America, aren't we? Probably everyone out probably too hot for me, my goodness of the week. Seattle voters, say yes to corporate tax hike to fund social housing. Look, I just want to report on one shareholder proposal basically that passed somewhere in the world, okay. But so I don't care about initiative to fund social housing through an excess compensation tax on City businesses paying salaries of over 1 million dollars. They're looking at, you know, obviously, Amazon Starbucks type, but that's a look. I want to report on one, win for sure holders, somewhere. Okay, I'm gonna go with mine's the winner, though. Okay, look you have me. A Claudia Sean bomb anything you say about Claudia Sean, my mom I'm in on so that's my love. Look it made me proud her to be a Mexican America. That's what it made me proud to be. All right. Now we're now we're gonna make it. We're gonna bring it down. Are you ready to bring it down? Let's bring it down. Bring it down. All right, I'm going to start with one of your stories of the week or at least the concepts green, hushing, green, hushing. So, I don't know if, you know this concept of green hushing. Well, I think I can guess. Yeah. Go ahead. It's you stop talking about anything. Green related sustainability related. You just don't talk about it anymore. Yeah, why do that? You don't disclose you. Don't talk about it. Like you pretend. It doesn't exist. Sure. The headline is always green, hushing emerges, as anti-esg, pressures mount for companies, and here's what I think, Stand up for yourself. You fucking babies. Like, what do you doing? Why do you agreeing enough said? Because either it is the right thing to do for your shareholders and stakeholders, and you should say it, as in, we set climate targets because we recognize climate change is risk. And we want to inform our investors of the risks of climate change to our business or like stakeholders in general. Are employees the communities in which we work in will no longer be habitable because of climate change, either. It's real. Or it's not and you're a fraud. Yeah. Oh yeah. I wish. We could we just compel these organizations to at least admit one of two things either. I'm a fraud. I never believe this in the first place. I just do whatever. You know. I just sway. Wherever the political winds take me. Yep. Love it. Or what is the other choice? What is I'm afraid? I know the science. The science is right. I'm afraid of trump. Yeah, I mean but but ya know. But they can't say that map because they're afraid of the boogie man right there of musk and Trump. I yeah. So I was at least tell us I just want them to tell us if they actually ever believed it in the first place. That's what I wanted to know. Look information suppression happens because people suppress the information like what is act at the actual risk that the Trump Administration will like you know sue you stop doing contracts with you. Like there's they're like monetary risks. If you list those risks out, that was a game of capitalism like you, you could say two things at the same time, which is we Recognize that climate change is a fundamental risk to our business. If it accelerates, it hurts, our employees, it hurts our suppliers, it hurts our, you know, our physical assets. It hurts our business in some other way, right? There's a million ways you could say, climate change could affect your business simultaneously. You can say we recognize it by saying that climate change is a risk and it and believing the science behind climate change and having mapped it and done all the analysis around it. We also recognize that the Trump Administration could Target us for our recognition of climate change as a risk. If you say both, things investors are informed, right? Isn't that all? That's a whole risk section. I think it's pretty simple. In fact up yeah since the inauguration to today is Valentine's Day that Trump, there have been a 110 K's released in that period. It's like a three week period 61 of them list, the Trump Administration and their risk factors and that great great for not the administration itself. It's like some rule that they have an executive order, their focus on it, they're changing and they said yeah the administration. Hey, so how about this Baby's? Why don't you go back to embracing capitalism and try to make some money off of off of this? Why there is a I've been saying this for years, why don't you just embrace the potential opportunity of the fact that the science is probably right? Because 99% of scientists believe in it and just make some goddamn money. How about that? Yeah, all so like it's fun that they're the focus on climate change is actually the biggest place is it's going to hurt. Now are all of the Republican states. Well, benefited the most from that's the audience of this clean energy. Yeah, yeah, so that's number one, green hushing companies stand up for yourself. Your babies. Number two, number two, ISS. Oh yeah, I can't find my there. It is. My sound effect fast enough. Here's the headline. We covered this on Tuesday, but ISS indefinitely, halts consideration of diversity factors. When making proxy voting definitions indefinitely indefinitely. They said indefinitely. So let's talk very briefly about the value of diversity factors and let's talk about strictly as data. We don't have to talk about the moral outrage of having all white male boards. Like we can actually you can if you want but but I assess is not like gonna get in this game for moral reasons. Anyway, I I'm fine with that, they can, but let's talk about diversity factors as a data set. So, currently investors are paying ISS and glass Lewis glass, Lewis did not make this record this announcement, but they're paying ISS, hundreds of thousands of dollars. They're paying ISS 100,000 of dollars instead of free float. Oh, and now they're getting less data. On the directors. Yes. How that works. Yeah. So they come backwards. Approach is away from you. Usually, you give someone something and then you charge them, you know, money for it. But you're taking them the same amount to give them less of something. So, you know, they're not even considering the factors man. It's not like they're changing the weighting of how they're looking at. They're not even considering the factors. I mean, looking at the definitely halts consideration. Yeah. We we're not halting giving you the data. We're just holding consider. We're not even gonna look at it. That's right. Here are the factors that you no longer consider that you've halted indefinitely considering? Gender diversity women outpace. Men globally in sector knowledge for every board that they're on. In fact, like when you look at the data, women are more likely to have gone to an elite school, or have an advanced degree and have direct knowledge of the industry of the company. They're on the board of Yeah, I I would say in general that if you're if you're looking for a new director, you should start with the data set that has the F under gender because that you're right, that woman is probably gonna come with with a crap load of Industry knowledge. So I mean personally I want to look at her first. You want to look at her first if you are if you are here, this is this is the factor. You're no longer. Considering I know you don't want to say that. We should hire a woman for a woman's sake, you're not actually hiring a woman for a woman's sake. What you'd be hiring is the probability that the woman has gone to a better school, gotten a better education and knows the industry because that's what's there. Now, that's what that's who gets hired now. Women tend to have stronger networks. So, few, women break the glass ceiling to get into a board. They end up getting recycled, which means they have more friends and high places than a lot of men. Do they know people on all sorts of other boards? So they have information networks. Once they break that sealing that tend to be stronger than men, and to boot women and men have exactly. And I mean, exactly the same performance metrics as directors. And by performance, I am talking about during their 10 years. They oversee the exact amount of TSR in earnings performance as a percentile versus industry Pierce. They are exactly the same, okay? The only advantage that men have is they tend to be CEOs, and they tend to retain an economic interests as in. Yeah. No one hires women as CEOs unless there's a crisis and Mommy has to clean it up. Yeah. And the boys almost always keep the shares for themselves. They keep them the money for themselves. They don't want to give any of the girls. Those are not qualifications to be on a board. So, Vectors, you know, longer consider. It's weird. I s s. I s s. Let's just I'm gonna be playing. Really use playing language for you. It's you're being weird. It's It's really weird. I'm sorry, but you to Bow again, I think what you said earlier, Matt was right. If you want to list the risks of, of what the risks of using this data means and 2025 and going forward and and and the history of like, you know, dealing with different administrations and what that means for your outlook, what whatever, whatever you want to say, but you're just being Dopey and weird. You're acting like a like a like a middle school boy in seventh grade. Who was like, they're all pulling on pigtails. I don't know what you're doing. I SS. It's stupid. I didn't even talk about race and ethnicity data factors a lot less of that. Unfortunately, but yeah, what do you have on that black women? Black female directors at S&P 500 companies In our data set, when we break it down by male, female and race ethnicity. They are the most knowledgeable of the industries that on the boards. They sit on black women. We just pointed this out the Citigroup. Now, the board is now majority women and the new director is a black woman, Titi Cole. I think her name is and, and her resume is, is outstanding. So if anything I assess, I SS, you should be actually focusing on the women first because they I think Matt's, right? They're, they're probably just better more talented, more educated, more everything. I mean, Jesus, in fact, black women have the strongest networks that Asian men have this highest performance rate on TSR and earnings of S&P 500 companies anywhere. And overall, when we look at knowledge leadership, economic interests, networks and performance as factors, diversity factors that include diversity, right? Like that. Those are the, I am stripping, like, gender and Diversity metrics out of those factors. I look just looking at like Merit effectively and then I add diversity in. You want to know who the most meriting board positions are in S&P 500 companies. Yeah, black people. Black men and women are the absolute, they're tied for the highest Merit on S&P 500 boards. This is what that is. This is why I'm calling ISS just dumb and Goofy because I I just I again I I can understand like you're broadening the conversation around the issue and maybe you talked to your investors about it but it's just drop it and definitely just, you know, I'm gonna Focus I'm gonna look at it. Like I don't understand, I don't want to, I don't get it at all. Well, I know they're not looking at these factors to begin with, but as a Brute Force, way to actually improve Merit on your board. Diversity factors do a really good job right now. Like if you only hired black women for board position, Ends. The chances are, they would tend to be more knowledgeable. Have better performance have been more Merit, but your average white male. I'm sorry, that might be illegal. That might be illegal in America. I'm sorry. That's what the data says, but that's what it says right now. That's what it says. Yeah. But that might be, that might be illegal. I don't know if you can do that. Well, I mean, well, the good news is that even if it was illegal, it also served its purpose already. So it's over. All right, that's your second asshole's ISS. That's an easy one. What else? Number three, shareholders, who don't use their rights. I know all the time. They're right. But the SEC this is a headline SCC. Looks to muzzle shareholder culture Warriors. So, They made this very Arcane change culture Warriors. Yeah, culture warriors. Did they just find that? Did they Define that what's a cultural? Of course not. Um, okay, well, I mean, the headline here is from The Wall Street Journal. So it's a, it's a Murdoch joint, so they're going to call him cultural but what the SEC did, what is that? Hairy lesbian? What is that? What is a culture? Yeah, that's who it is. Only are only lesbians. Yeah. Thanks. What they did. Is they provided new guidance for one particular kind of filing. It's called the 13 G filing. Yeah. This is Arcane by the 13g applies to any investor who has 5% or more of the company. So BlackRock It applies to its on average. It is Blackrock. Vanguard or State Street. Yeah, there are many of them. There are many of those. They're only a few right on average who almost always own more than 5% and they have passive, it's past five percent. This rule is they have to file a 13 G which just says we own. This much gives you a little bit of information but it basically says we do not own it with the intent of when you are not an actress. Yeah, we're not like proxy contest. We own the position, we engage with management but we're not an activist we're here for dollars and to hang out with Joe Gabby. Oh. So the new guidance and I could read the whole guidance but I'm not going to the new guidance effectively says. That if you discuss. Anything with management. That looks like coercion. That looks like you're trying to change Management's decision making process including something like recommending a company, remove a staggered board. Um, switching to majority voting. Just just saying, like, you know, we don't like that, you know, like we prefer simple majority voting like, that's good governance practice, right? Yeah, saying that, and this, of course in the SEC guidance, they include undertaking specific actions on social environmental or political policy. So they, they needed to put that in there because they don't want anyone asking companies about their climate plans, but this isn't pressuring companies to drop D E. I also a political action. I don't understand only if you're a 5% or more holder, right? Because the change here, and this includes actually voting against a director. If you say, we, we are really concerned about climate change. We are looking, we're going our policy suggests, we should vote against a director, who's the head of the, you know, nominating committee. If, you know, you don't take the seriously or whatever, right? Like, if you have anything that says vote against a director, as a consequence to not doing what is asked, that's not an engagement you. Now, you no longer can file a 13 G. You have to file a 13 d. And the difference between those two, things means, every time you talk to a company, you have to update your filing. Where 13 G is just an update of like once and a quarter. This is how much we own the 13d. Is every time you talk to the investor. So company you have to file file file, file file. It is engagement death by bureaucracy. So Matt you're saying, if you're against management and for anything you're basically an activist. I mean, if you don't just if you want to everything, the board says everything. To CEOs says you're you're labeled an activist if you own 5% of the company or more. So this is really targeting just like Black Rock, State Street, Vanguard. And then a couple of hedge funds that owns, you know, other companies that are small, like small number of other hedge funds. If you own 5% or more of the company and you talk to the company about anything, that's a priority to you, that are arguably, could be coercive and you are under 13. Need to file every time you talk to them, you file as like you're an activist investor, you're trying to change the company, they effectively are in disincentivizing all engagement of the major. How how many years away are. We if this continues, like this, how many years away are? We from getting rid of things like, say on Pavo? It's from even just publishing all the data about compensation, or even voting on directors, in the first, how many years away are we from this? Just get rid of it all and but here's what I think you could do in the interim, BlackRock State Street, Vanguard I know you listen to the show. I know your entire engagement teams, listen to the show. I know the CIO and the CEO, Larry, Fink eyes. How you doing, guys? Good to have you here. They are guys. Mostly What you need to do from now on. Is. Basically do not vote at all, don't vote at all, which means only minority shareholders, will vote and minority shareholders. I know every shareholder and every company is listening to the show right now, vote against directors. Well, that is actually a fascinating point you bring up at, why are the, why are the black rocks voting anyway? Right? Why do if they're passing, nothing with your votes? Yes. Your diluting. Actual shareholders sentiment. Are you not the ultimate pass through vote is to stop voting entirely? Yeah. Like, you are like this. Anyway, finally, you have a good idea. A good thought I liked this. I love this so don't vote, let us do it for you. Yeah, let's shareholders. Actually speak. We're the ones who have a vested interest in the outcome. Sure. And we should care, and we've actually probably done the due diligence. We probably spent time in the proxies, and all of the other shareholders are going to free flow analytics.com. And they're looking up the directors and seeing actually how they perform. Yeah, imagine a world in which you stopped basically watering down our vote. So, you're saying care, you're saying, imagine a world with accountability. Is that what you're saying? Oh man. That's that's so those are your three options for us. The week, green hushers ISS and the big shareholders who don't use their rights Oh, I mean yeah. Green hushers. That's a boy. This are, these are all good. I mean, how I feel like do I vote against ISS every week? I feel like I don't want to just keep laying on the ISS horn. I mean they're just like obviously it's that they stink every week. Is that our problem? I don't know. I actually I usually I usually don't vote for your kind of your big kind of General theories assholes. But I like this last one Cheryl don't use their rights and I love mostly because I love this new thought. This new mandate to the 13th, to the 1358, stop diluting, actual shareholders sentiments. Stop it, that's my vote. I love it. And then and then we'll organize and rally to vote at every single director using free flow analytics data. Let's do it baby. I love it. All right. Oh so That's an asshole. It's now headlines, winners predictions. Let's, let's wrap up the show. now I'm tired, I need a little Oh my headlines. Perfect for you. Then headline is the week. This is perfect for you, Matt. Here's the headline Denny's from Denny's Denny's says, Consumers, fatigued by news economy inflation. Everything Hey, right. I mean, maybe Danny's got it. They nailed it, right? I mean that's exactly how I feel. I am fatigued by all that. I love it, Denny's. I, I don't usually like, like your food. I don't go to your restaurants anymore but I like, I like your your understanding of the American population. I'm too fatigued to go to their restaurants honestly and I got. So, what I got for headline is is purely juvenile. Like, like I, I Channel my middle school boy. I saw this headline and I laughed out loud. This is a real company. This is a real headline. I didn't make any of it double Deuce, Double Deuce, Double Deuce. It's a company, double Deuce exploration. That sounds like a middle school joke. Yeah, go ahead, double Deuce announces appointment of Paul a Dumas, which looks like dumbass as chairman of the port, directors, double Deuce announces Paul dumbass is chairman of the board of directors. Come on dumbass. By the way, they also put in that press release, this is the double Deuce exploration company. In Canada, they wrote, quote, we believe that his experience and knowledge of the mining sector, his wealth of contacts, and his expertise in growing, a company and creating shareholder value will be incredibly beneficial to double. Do sex exploration, what are those things? Knowledge Network and performance. I like it. Yeah, double Deuce, why don't you come use our database and that way, you can prove some of this stuff that you double Deuce BS about our My Oh, okay, that's it. Headlines of the week. It's over. Yeah. It's over my headlines. Better than yours. Oh. Okay. It was the winner of the winners. I already talked about my, I didn't think we're gonna, we talked more about them than I thought. So, I'm not going to I'm not going to reiterate. My Winner's are obviously Joe Gabby. For having you know, for having three body guards protecting him from you like that and Richard. No, no date. No D. Naughty naughty the Goldman Sachs Banker for basically declaring that the need for civil rights and equal rights is done. It's over it's like that. The South African investment banker from Goldman Sachs is trying not to laugh at that statement. Yeah go it's saying that like African. Yeah it's that d e. I served as purpose in the middle of trump saying that white people from South Africa should come to America as refugees because of the black land. Grab. Yeah. Well the good news tonight. The good news is that those? I guess those white South Africans are like no thanks because probably because Trump runs the country here. Yeah, I think that's probably the other thing about Richard. Richard. If you, if you spent a little bit more time paying attention, you might you might realize that. Actually, we need The your programming, your your diversity initiatives more than ever now. Actually, that's the irony more than ever. All right. Predictions you. Oh wait, I don't have a winner. What's your winner? My winner is anyone who's not a cow veterinarian? That's me because I that's me too. I saw this headline H5 and one testing in Cal. Veterinarians suggest bird flu is spreading silently. Oh no. Wait, the people, the people, the people, the veterinarians are basically have like versions of the bird. Wait. So maybe this is good news then maybe the the inflationary price of things like eggs. And maybe it's good now because we won't be catching bird flu because it won't be eating as much chick. Many chickens and eating many eggs. Maybe this is all I can't give up eggs eggs. Good eggs are too good prediction predictions. My prediction are Jamie dimon. I'm going back to Jamie dimon who said, I don't like it, who said that he was never a believer in bias, training. Is that what he said? I was never really? Yeah, it doesn't believe in bias, training. Yeah, it doesn't believe. In yeah, because if, you know, he would be the expert, I would go do, I would say, I would go to Jamie diamond white man, billionaire and say, you know, what are your thoughts about bias training by? So about systemic bias you. Yeah, yeah. So this is what he's doing that. My prediction is Jamie, dimon starts to remove tampons. He starts to remove tampons from women's bathrooms at JP Morgan Chase. Because he says, Quote, I was never a firm believer in women's hygiene projects. Oh, I don't like this at all. Amy, what are you doing, Jim, you're not an expert in that either. Jamie. So what are you doing? All right. Well I have a prediction for you to wrap the show. My prediction is that Musk. Oh, we'll be. In that position down in Washington too. All the board members are going to get in on Doge and Kimball musk is going to be leading who better leading the Kennedy Center. Now, that Trump is taking over. That's my, that's my prediction. Kimball musk head of the Kennedy Center. I actually think it could happen. Now, that's where we're at. That's all we got. That's hazelnut rollers. We are free floats. We I actually just did a crossover show with Cher older Primacy if you see downloaded, go down it next week show, I'm gonna be on with Michael Van and in fact we're gonna cut some of that. Talk talking with Mike Levin and put it on our show. Yeah. Here a little bit about what that's like because these are people who are way smarter than us, which is a whole bar, but they are until next week.