Transcript
Alright, yeah, you there? You still there? Live from the used wrapping paper from Jamie Diamond's birthday party. currently. It's an all new terrific Tuesday edition of Business Pants joined by analyst hole Matt Muscard. On today's extra babbly windfest called August fourth, twenty twenty six, the boardroom buy in game. Yeah. Which nobody asked for. There's the enthusiasm. Yeah No literally no that's the game the least that's like it wouldn't even make it on the games network. Like nobody would care. Our show well, I'll tell you who would care. Our show our sponsor. Our show today is being sponsored by Freeflowanalytics dot com, the only platform measuring board power connections and performance for free. And two point is about to be launched. I know it's already in beta testing. I use it daily, so No, they do do that, that's true. So it's important that people know that there's two versions. There's a pay version and a f and a free version. The free version is two hundred and fifty companies, the y largest companies, and the pay version you've got portfolio analytics and stuff like that. And if you want the paid version, if you're just like a person, we can set you up. And it's it's just as opposed to like Still a lot. If you just who if as opposed to who else is listening? Bread boxes and armadillos? okay. Yeah. No, we we We make fun out of l it's out of love. It's out of love. You know, like if you're Vanguard, right? And you have ignored the fact that we make fun of you on every show and you've decided that you want real data, then we charge you we ch we charge you for real data. But if you're just like a guy named, you know, Gus or yeah, and and you're like, you know what I really want? I really want data on like some mid cap Japanese company, yeah, we can we can work wor we work it out. We can work it out. That's all I'm saying. We can work it out. Edgar? Yeah. Well, they do. We know people do. We know people do want stuff like that. Yeah. And that and and that's actually a good lead into this game because what we're trying to we're still trying to figure out the kinks of this game, but what we're trying to do here is is attach people and headlines to whether you wanna be a part of this company, whether you wanna be an investor, whether you wanna be a whatever, a believer, consumer, a protester. I don't know. We are? That's what we're doing? A believer. We're looking for believers. That's what we're looking for. All right, let's go. Let's I don't even know. The boardroom buying game. Let's go. I'm gonna start wi with a couple of softballs before I move on to some Hard balls. Yeah, more like disturbing stuff. I I'm gonna go I'm gonna st I'm gonna do this. I'll do two. And I'm they're gonna be really nerdy governance boardroom buy-in game moments. Matternet appoints Starbucks, EVP, Sanjay, Shaw to board of directors. So Matternet is a company that makes drones, I guess. Yeah, they commercial drone delivery systems for urban and suburban environments. I hate that I have to say that. Yes. Really? What MatterNet sounds doesn't that so it sounds like a company like they they like saw Terminator two and thought, well they're like Skynet, let's be Matternet or like it doesn't seem like a make nineties company? Well it it's funny you say that because I had the same feeling, like it sounds like something that like boys would make. And upon research, the board is five men, boys, and the the executives listed on the website are f are three or four boys. I I couldn't find a woman because I mean what woman would would want an annoying drone hovering above their urban or suburban environment? Nobody would want that. I don't know why a man would want that, but here here's what we're gonna do. In or out on this company based on the appointment of of Starbucks E VP Sanjay Shaw. And let me give you a a quick amount of background. No. Yeah, what's his deal? Yeah, I don't know anything about this guy. 'Cause maybe maybe I'm for once, maybe this is a good thing. So the CEO and founder of this company has an MA in industrial design engineering. has a diploma in mechanical engineering. So there's some expertise there. Yeah, sits sits on the board. They also have a they have a guy named Chris Dawson who got an MBA from Inseed, which is the the top business school in Paris, one of the top in the world. Well engineer, yeah, okay. He does a thing, he knows something. He can add. Yeah, okay. I don't care about that. They also have a have a lawyer. They have a lawyer and another guy who has an MBA. but he's a lawyer, so I think that's probably why he's on the board. he's the he's also named Sanjay. So they have two Sanjays at this point. Sanjay, San J. That look, if you had a bingo card of how many sanjays you're gonna find on any given board that isn't an Indian company, it was gonna be a, you know, a low probability. Yeah, I've never seen it. it's a never. It's a never in America. And in fact, I mean, we always make the jokes like more Johns than women, but this is literally more Sanjays than women. I mean, well, there are no women. So yeah, you can't Yeah. Cause even one is more because you can't divide by zero. They have Lawrence Martin, he's a MD, a medical doctor. and then finally they have a guy who is expertise in human resource and law. They did it. Finally. They did they did it. It was a low bar. You needed one. So how do you feel about adding a second Sanjay? Now he has a BS in mechanical engineering. He's the chief supply officer at Starbucks. he has a background. He worked at Beyond Me, Tesla, Amazon. I mean, maybe this is a good ad. Maybe this is a good ad. I don't know. I mean, why not? I know this is a weird one to start in, but start off on, but I I don't know. Come on. Beyond me's not selling me. all right, so let's start with this. The this is a classic we see this pattern all the time. It it is a classic way to consolidate power with your executive or your founder by having your founder be the only guy who has any sort of like direct experience in what the the company does. They develop commercial drones, and the only guy on the board with like engineering experience. Yeah. Macha yeah, engineering. Yeah. Yeah. Which I imagine is useful for a commercial drone delivery company, is the CEO and founder. Do you think the guy who's an expert in polymine metabolism and cancer research is weighing in on the drone delivery system in a way that's meaningful? Yeah. Yeah. Unless they're unless they have him on the board because they're they're planning on like delivering drugs right into your mouth or something, right? Couldn't a drone do that? Yeah, like the drone comes in and it shoots the drugs into your eyeball. Up your nostrils or something, yeah. It is weird. That's why I was like, well, maybe it's not a bad thing to have another person w with mechanical engineering expertise. And I don't know, it comes from some heavy hitter companies, right? Who you know, I don't know about Beyond Me, but certainly Tesla, Amazon. Although GoPuff, what's it GoPu? He was the head of operations at GoPuff. I'm pretty sure that's like Cheetos. I don't get that one. But Sanjay Shah Sanjay Shah But but th this is where like w the companies that they work at should be disassociated from the roles they had in that company. He worked at Tesla as a senior vice president, but he is an operating officer. He his role at Starbucks is supply chain, which means the the like his he was responsible in like for Amazon for like ops, basic ops, supply chain logistics. Be good. That's that's okay for you know building drones, but it's not exactly building the drones, it's just sort of the the logistics of it. I think he's gonna be useful. I'm not saying he's not useful. Yeah, but they already have Okay yeah, see? I mean they're gonna they already have three MBAs. Why not have this guy? I'm not saying he's not useful. I am saying that like he's not exactly gonna sit there and challenge the CEO, is he? He's he's not even a CEO. That's true. That's true. The part that bothered me is that coming from places like Amazon and Tesla and Starbucks where it's a very heavy at the top, right? That that I thought, maybe that's not so good. Maybe that's deferential. But still, come on, I'm looking for a an in based on some nerdiness. Are you in or out on MatterNet? Okay. Fair point. Fair point. Fair point. Yeah. No, I'm out. You can't find a single woman with an engineering degree to put on the board. You can't like you got a second Sanjay, that's what you got? Come on. I was worried that the second Sanjay and no women involved at this company at all would dissuade you. Alright, okay, so I'll move on to one more, keeping it nerdy. I mean you can do one. Aeon. Aeon makes heating, air conditioning, that kind of nonsense. Aeon increases board size, appoints two dudes. Bob Buttermore III. Great name, of course. And Pat and Pat Germain. Now I'm already out. I d I can't. I can't with that. The the reason why this one struck me is like we're seeing a lot of this now. So this company only had two women on the board, despite having nine directors. Now they have eleven directors and still only two women. This is the new this is the new anti DEI world that we live in, right? So any woman now is considered, I guess, like diversity. They don't even they don't even bother to h to hire smart women, even though we know the world is full of smart women. But so I I so I was like, Okay, well Let's be fair. I mean, let's look at Bob Buttermore and Jermaine and see if they're good fits here. So based on Bob Buttermore the third, you might like this guy, in or out. He has a a BS in mechanical engineering. Not bad for a a a company that manufactures like heating and AC stuff. He was the chief supply chain officer of Rockwell Automation. so I don't know. Right? Come on. Yeah, well, so you're trying to push me away from the fact that like they added two board seats and in doing so diluted all the women. Like they they could only find two men. There's only men available. I don't know what I'm trying to do. Yeah. Okay, let me Well let me let me tell you about the other guy and maybe you can just make a you can make a big decision based on this. Maybe you'd pick both, maybe neither, maybe one. but but here's the other one. Patrick Germain, NBA, former CFO of Plexus, according to Free Flow Analytics, the 100% of the board has back b management what's it called? Background and management. No, do I have that wrong? Administration and man and management. Yeah, my cut and paste skills suck. Administration and management, yeah. They on the board they already have w one woman who was a former CFO, they have another MBA, they have another MBA who worked at a a bank, so I thought I don't know. Help me out. Okay, the th like the things you are leaving out here is that it is a structurally deferential company with Norman Asb Burjonson or Asp Johns Jornson who has seventy percent of the influence almost. Like th this is a one dude company. So so they add they managed to so Mm-hmm. I think I missed that point, yeah. So why have a big board at all? Yeah. So why do what do I need any of these people for? So that's even a better argument for having more women because if you're just not gonna listen to the board and you're gonna hand choose them and you have all the power, yeah, put whoever you want on the board. Put a couple of women, put a couple of black people, it'd be great. Everybody can, you know, you know Except Except where it gets interesting is well first of all the the women on this board are are are stellar. Angela Coupelin is an all star, her her batting average is seven ninety one, and Karen Lahan is a Hall of Famer. she hit seven seventy six overall. So they're two really capable women and the man that you just referred to who has seventy percent influence is ninety years old according to the Free Flow Analytics. So Yeah, they're really good. Yeah. You know, is this part of succession planning? I don't know. Are you in or out based on these board ho what's going on here? Give me a just come on. All right, fine. Okay. He's ninety. I I'm a I'm a hard out. I don't I won't buy any board that that that's a controlled, especially by a guy who's been there for 38 years and he's 90. That's not good. You know, like according to the map, the network map in this company, the the Scott as Bjornson or whatever is actually the connective tissue to Karen Lawhorn and to Chip McElroy. He he they sit Scott is his son. Dangerous. Wait, who's Scott? His son? has a family relationship with Norman and he sits on the Tulsa regional chamber of commerce with two of the board members. Are I mean, come on. This is not this is not a real board. This is a fictitious board. Yeah, Interesting. All right. All right, that was my attempt at some ner nerdy governance stuff. Give me one. We'll go back and forth now. Yeah. Okay. All right, I'm gonna show you one now. This is how it should be done. Okay. In or out. The this is the headline. Your AI strategy isn't failing because of bad design. It's because your team doesn't believe in you. That's the headline. This headline was a fortune, you know, Owen Fitzpatrick, a a psych psychologist or something. who this is what he wrote about himself. He's traveled to more than a hundred countries. Are there more? a hundred countries. and and studied propaganda firsthand in places like North Korea, Rwanda, Afghanistan. He's worked with leaders at Google, LinkedIn, Pfizer, and Coca-Cola. So why doesn't he study the propaganda coming out of Google, LinkedIn, Pfizer, and Coca-Cola? Or does he? Cares, yeah. U or or just out of our own out of our own federal government. Why does he have to go to Afghanistan for that? He's just a show off. I he's author of ten books and he wrote this op ed that basically says most AI strategies, the strategy isn't the problem. The problem isn't your technology. The problem the problem is that by the time you get in front of your workers and tell them they have are already dis they're already decided that they're not they're not gonna do it. They don't believe in you is the problem. That's his premise. Is that your workers hate you? Well, yeah, and th let's not forget that there is a there's a lot of negative sentiment around it. There've already been layoffs attributed to AI and as a Jensen Wing put put it well, stop telling people that let's pretend it's good. Like let's stop admitting all the faults of it. Let's stop telling people, right? Remember he said like let's paint a rosy picture here? So Alright, so I don't understand. What am I doing here? Yeah, that's that's that's right. So now here's the in or out round. I I this is I'm gonna read just the names of people who have announced AI strategies and you're and you're gonna say, are you are you buying like like are you buying them and the company and the AI strategy because they're the messenger or are you selling? Easy one first. Ready? Mark Zuckerberg. All in. Let's go. Am I in or out on the company, you mean? The company Okay. Let's go. Let's do it. No Well, I mean Baby. He's firing everybody. He's spending a hundred and thirty billion dollars on AI again on another thing. He's just constantly doing that. And it's it okay, so that's so there's an out. So Mark Zuckerberg gets in front of everybody. He says, We have a new AI strategy. And you before he even says strategy, you're already like, no, hard out. Okay. Again. Didn't he just do that on meta? Yeah. Well that's an easy out. What what do you else you have? I'm sure the workers feel the same way. Go ahead. What's next? Yeah. What about Jamie Diamond? Jamie Diamond, he's been much more like he's much more he's not like a b yeah, he's like a middle of roadie guy, but he did say AI's going to f we're going to do a total redeployment because of AI. Well, they he he announced that he simultaneously has said we're we've cut, you know, 2,000 people because of AI, and said Middle of the road. Hm. What does that mean? No one's cutting people because of AI, like in the same like you know, conference. But when Jamie Diamond says it, are you buying or you selling on on Jamie Diamond's AI version? Yeah. I mean I hate to sound all like mad money Jim Kramery, but it's hard for me to I don't know. It's it's hard for me to be against I I I might be morally and ethically against Jamie Diamond, but he seems to know what he's doing at that at that bank. Look, he's he's not a knee-jerk guy like these other Schmoes. That's a buy. You're buying ja you buying Jamie Diamond. There it is. He's not just like jumping on something because he can't figure out other problems, which I'm sure you're gonna present to me on this list. he seems like someone who's gonna sensibly figure this out as opposed to like like, you know, working at Crackerborough as a new CEO and deciding let's use AI to help like make our tater tots crunchier or something, you know, like Yeah. Okay, well like I so first of all that's a good that's a good segue into not big not as big names. Ready? Bill Brown, the CEO of 3M. Who so 3M announced Ask 3M, which is a product innovation like tool where they discuss customers can discuss their ideas with AI chatbot and get the ideas that they can then. What's next? Yeah, exactly. Yes, this is what this worries me more. Seriously? N No No No. I'm out on that. Build. It's that kind of thing. That sounds like desp that sounds like desperation. All right, so so a that sounds like the dopey version, right? Not to mention that like LinkedIn just I don't know if they just sent me an email or I r saw a news article, like they want their users to report all the AI slop. It's like no don't no. Do your own job. Yeah, you guys make a lot of money. you you know, you you just do your job. Hire some people and do your job. Isn't that your job, Jab Jackass? All right, here's one, and I'm curious what you're gonna think about this. Kelly Ortberg, the CEO of Boeing. Now, we know a lot about Boeing. the it Boeing, actually, this is this is like a strange place to be because I'm asking whether you're gonna buy Boeing and Kelly Ortberg, their strategy on AI. They announced AI intelligence that they're using inside, mostly what they're doing with it. yeah. Yeah. We've we know a lot about Boeing. Go ahead. is to enhance spec drawings and for slight productivity. But Ortberg has actually come out and said, we're not gonna go deep on AI because we need to focus on turning this company around and and safety and productivity and not we can't be focused on building out a whole new thing that could we could be throwing money away. Like we Yeah. Hmm. Well Okay, I based on that on that sentiment I'm in. but based on the first one, I yeah, I I don't want any company that's putting airplanes in the sky relying on AI for anything. Maybe maybe in ten years, but I don't I don't trust it. No, I think what It was a little bit funny when I looked it up. They showed a picture of a spec sheet that was done by an engineer and it was like slightly faded. And then they they just used AI to basically make the contrast higher. Like it was it was so dumb. It was so dumb. To make the lines crisper. Even that even that worries me. Even that worries me. I I keep a map in my my house. I made a few well a few weeks ago. I had Gemini. You know, because Gemini is owned by Google and you know, they have Google Maps, which is a w which is a great system, you know, it's a great GPS, whatever, whatever it's called. It's a great, I mean Google Maps is great. Everyone knows this, right? So I asked Gemini to They have maps, yeah. create some some like walking paths for me in my neighborhood when I take my dog for a walk. I'd a care 'cause I just wanted and I wanted it to be an exact length. So I was just like, give me some different options. And they sent me back a map that was completely made up. I there was my I I I live on Berkeley Street, right? There was fifteen Berkeley streets on the map. And and the map and the map didn't resemble They don't use Google Maps when they do it. It's not integrated. The map didn't resemble my neighborhood at all. They had they changed the whole layout. There was made up names of things I I really don't think there's they they're using I don't think they use Google Maps this with the AI. No. All right. Here's my last one. Here's my last one in there in in this semi speed round. Brian Cornell, the target, not CEO, but actual CEO. Buying or selling. Here's one bullet point from the announcement they made at the end of twenty twenty five. This is a quote quote, using data and technology in new ways. This is their AI strategy. Well, they should use Google Maps. So I don't trust it. go, go ahead. Yeah. Go ahead. Ooh. Selling. Yeah. Using data and technology in new ways to strengthen inventory planning, improve in-store consistency, and enhance guest interactions. Enhanced guest interactions is a huge out. Isn't that a huge out? That's like an immediate out when you say something as vague as we'll make the customers happy. I don't I don't get target. First of all, I don't know how how the hell do they how are investors st like believing in this company for keeping B Brian Cornell around? How are they not like re rebelling against this Schmoe still being there? But but second of all, you have a very folksy cousin in your industry called Costco that leans really into like the the people stuff. Like The people. Yeah, people are like a thing, yeah. Like they're they're really into paying their people. They're really into like kissing the customers butt and doing nice things for them and listening to them and giving them cheap hot dogs. Why don't you just do that, Target? Why don't you just be nice to people? I mean w AI what is it? Enhanced guest interactions with AI? That's horrible. Horrible, yeah. I'm out. All right. Enhance guest interactions with AI. Yeah. Yeah. so then the the to summarize that first one, if you are looking to buy AI, here this is the point of this. If you're looking to like buy AI, everyone like goes and buys NVIDIA stock or like, you know, like w f Meta stock or or or the like AI adjacent companies, the data center stock. But Yeah, what's the point? You actually can buy AI strategies at regular companies. And if you're going to do that, Damian says, Don't buy Zuck, don't buy 3M Bill Brown, don't buy Target and Brian Cornell, do buy Jamie Diamond and do buy Boeing. Because you did say that. So all right. you do an you do another one. Hmm. I feel embarrassed, but I did say that, yeah. Alright, my next one is less nerdy more serious. And I and I don't know if I'm just trying to wedge the story in here or not. Because again, I don't really understand this game, even though I created it. so In N Out game, based on this disturbing headline from the New York Times this morning. I think it came out this morning. Yeah. Uber's strategy for fighting sexual assault suits. What were you wearing? Okay, so this is referring to the Whoa that's I'm can I already be out? I'm not sure what I'm gonna be in on. Yeah, so this is yeah, I mean of course, but I'm giving you I'm gonna give you a little bit of a wrinkle on this subject, but but of course and and go just you know, don't listen to my summary. I'm not even gonna bother summarizing it, just go read the article. But i in a nutshell they're saying that the the legal team at Uber was ultra aggressive in like shaming the victims and blaming the victims. I mean that that's clearly what they're and then this is based on on on a lot of A big investig investigation including looking at a lot of court cases. So so here's how I'm gonna play the game. In or out based on the board itself. Okay. So I what I did is I looked at two skills that the board highlights as being important. one was called consumer I'm I'm trying to find anything yes, I'm not trying to find anything that points to the customer, to like This is like their skills matrix. Like taking care of the customer, right? And I it's it was hard to find, but I found two that maybe could do that. Consumer and digital experience, a background that in the development and improvement of consumer experiences with a company's products, services, and brand, including through a digital interface. I don't know what any of that means. And the other one is sustainability and human capital management, experience and corporate responsibility. Human capital management and managing sustainable initiatives. I don't really know what that means either. I I I guess it's like ESG ish stuff. I don't really know. Isn't that supposed to be how do we keep our like the the gig workers from being employees? Like how do we keep them from being employees, right? That's all that is. Workers happy? Yes. But but it says experiencing corporate responsibility. If you're being sued for sexual assault, wouldn't that be anyway? So I looked, I thought these are pretty specific skill sets, so they can't be many people, right? Because these are this is like, you know, this is some serious stuff at a company like Uber. But I found that seven directors are listed as skills in both categories. Both. And let me just quickly tell you who these people are. I'm sure go last name only here. Aurora. he was a CEO. He's a CEO of Paulo Auto Networks. That's cybersecurity and worked at SoftBank. I how does that how we how I don't understand. Ur Ursula Burns Ursula Burns, she's the former CEO chair of Xerox. She's an investor in tech now. We have two partners at PE firms, Eckert and Ginsburg. I I don't really know how that qualifies. well I think Softbank gave him a lot of money. That's how. Yeah. We have the CEO Dara. Dere he's the he was the former CEO at Expedia. I don't know how he's gonna help. We have your favorite Ron Sugar, who's the former CEO former CEO of a war company, Northrop Grumman. I don't know how that helps. And then finally we have Winance. He's the former CEO of a life insurance company. I I don't know how any of these people are are gonna represent the side of of women being assaulted. And this has a been going on for years. I I mean Run You could bomb your customers. Are you in or out on this board as having the skill set to represent consumers in any way possible? In or out. I mean, I don't know. I'm trying to play the game here. I like that you're asking me the question, even I mean, this is so so obviously no one. Like no, you know, not not to mention the fact that you named how many women in that list? Ginsburg and Burns, and and they have what combined influence? They have twenty percent combined influence. Ow. yeah. Yes. next to the rest of the people on the board. Dara has twenty three and sugar has sixteen percent. Eckert has twelve, right? So what we're really saying here is that women on this board don't have any power. They c But they also don't have the the but even if just because they're women doesn't isn't the whole story though, because they don't have any expertise in this area. Right? But e yeah, I'm I'd like that's the next part. Not only do they not have any power, even if they did, they're not really suited or qualified by way of professional experience to deal with constant assaults and Uber cars. So it's a lose lose. I'm hard out. Right. No. Absolutely. Even though yeah. So n now let's let's focus on Chief Legal Officer Tony West. So he of course I can't believe he even did this, honestly. I I I mean I I hope this I hope we're on the verge of of CEO Dare getting fired and the board getting voted out. He Yeah, I know. I'm gonna go with a hard no on that. 'cause we seem to be the only one who like w we re we read headlines about this this horrible headline in in the New York Times, which I'm sure most of the people in America who read the New York Times are going to be equally horrified at, right? It's it's that damning of a story. And we're somehow the only ones who immediately think, okay, who's responsible for this? Who do we who do we go after, right? We don't just like wring our hands and say, Uber sucks. I mean, right? There are people involved with these decisions. But anyway No, we don't even no one even cares. Chief Liv legal officer Tony West puts out a he he actually put out a blog post, a press release on the Uber in the Uber newsroom called Why Safety is Personal to Me. Right? Clearly in response clearly in response to this New York Times piece. I mean, this is a doozy of a blog piece. So, First, he spends the first he f he basically fends spends the first third of the I'm just gonna say, are you in around on Chief Legal Officer Tony West? I'm gonna give you some background out of this blog piece. He's he spends the first third reciting his resume saying, you know, he used to prosecute child exploitation, he did pro bono work for domestic vi violence survivors, he over he w oversaw the office on violence against women under Obama. And he he says, quote, I would never support or condone conduct inside or outside a courtroom. That fails to treat women and survivors with dignity and respect based on that background. But that how is that how is that proof of of how is that proof of anything? Your resume can't be proof that you wouldn't do it. And let's not forget that he was the chief architect of the Prop 22 in California, which was trying to kick trying to call all employees at Ober, right? Gig workers. Yeah. I I look, I I think if you're this is like a Facebook situation, right? Where if you work for this company, you I don't care if you work in the mailroom, like do you have no standards of what your employer should do? You should quit. Yeah. Quit. I I guess not. I'm gonna keep going to Tony West 'cause I just wanna I just wanna tell you what Tony West said. This is this again, these are people who maybe who use Uber or invest in Uber. Maybe it's time to switch or vote out the entire board. He also said I'll be the he said, quote, I'll be the first to say that our adversarial legal system can be particularly tough for survivors by its nature. By its nature. He said this. By its nature, the trial process is designed to extract facts and and yeah. It's probably China's fault too. It's gotta be China. Where's China? This is in public view, which makes it very difficult. So he blames the system. He blamed the system for forcing his own legal team to shame the victim. I mean, I I I can't believe he wrote this stuff, but he did. he also cherry picks one favorable moment. He he picked he found one single judge from a trial in February that praised Uber's attorneys, saying that they did not engage in quote the slightest bit of shaming, end quote. yeah. And he and that he wanted it quote to clear he wanted that to be on the record. But but Tony, that doesn't you know, one quote from one judge Are are are we celebrating that you didn't shame someone? That's what you wanna be clear the the one time you didn't shame someone is what you wanna be clear that we are we recognize. That's let the fact that you're celebrating that is already a problem. About Tony. Yeah, go ahead. Horrible. How about Tony Sil bullshitting the bigger picture? He says, quote, Uber was among the first companies to end forced arbitration and mandatory confidentiality agreements in matters involving sexual assault and sexual harassment. Yes, that's true, but they ended individual forced arbitration. They did do that, but they fought ruthlessly to ensure survivors still cannot form class action lawsuits. So the so they can't do class action lawsuits. So you putting the burden on each victim to to mount a legal challenge good. Against Uber, right? I mean how how I don't know how that's possible. Yeah. Against that guy who runs Uber Law. And finally, he lied about the ESG data. He said, quote, Uber was also the first companies to voluntarily and consistently publish data on the reports of sexual assault. So but the Times revealed that they hid hundreds of thousands of complaints by categorizing them as unaudited or less serious. That's Uber's words. So while Uber publicly reported a few thousand incidents, this is his team. Internal documents revealed by the Times show that they received over 400,000 reports of sexual assault or misconduct between the 2017 and 2020. So do th so this guy he's coming out defending this with a blog post. So to your point, I know you're out. And I and I think I think you summed it up best by saying, How is how is anyone still in on this company at all? how are you not laying down your sword Quitting, giving up, divesting, voting up the board. I mean, look that that's the way these companies change. These companies don't change because, you know, like the New York Times writes a headline about how horrible they are. They change when people actually do something different. Whether it's the employee leaving or the investor voting out the board or the CEO not getting paid. It something has to like happen for the company to care. But yeah. But but yeah. But up but but I I will praise the New York Times here 'cause this is a it's a great impetus to care, right? I mean so yeah, I I don't know. I I I know this doesn't really qualify for this game because clearly you're out, but I maybe I just needed to w get this story into the show. But it sounds like you're out on Uber. yeah, I'm a heart out. Are you kidding me? I'm definitely out. How many more do you have? like are we going every other now? yeah, y you take one. Alright, I'll do one. I'm gonna do this one first. Here's the I have one really short one, and then one built off of you mentioned something, but so I'm gonna do this one. The headline was Starbucks CEO earns one thousand seven hundred and ninety-four times more than the average worker. Here's why he's paid thirty one million. Minor my the rest of mine are shorter, by the way. Well, before you launch into this, I will congratulate why I always forget his name, Brian Nickel. 'Cause last year he made six thousand six hundred and sixty six times I'm not kidding, times the average worker. So he's actually gone down. Nickel. But that's because they paid he n paid him a ninety six million dollar golden hello. So so he they didn't keep it the same. All right. But this is what I this is what I thought was interesting about the headline and gave me an in and out because it says here's why he's paid thirty one million dollars. So this is IB IBI Times or whatever, or I B Times. but it Don't care. Still, it's still still money. Go ahead. Yeah, I love this. Who wrote this by the way? Is this an opinion piece? Yeah. This is out of this is out of the UK. Yes, it it th which they have a lot of great headline writers there. We tag a lot of their headlines, even though their stories are the same as other stories we read. They just do a good job with their headlines because they add a line like here's why he's paid thirty-one million. So so I w in or out on why he's paid thirty-one million. This isn't he's paid thirty-one million, that's egregious. This is are you in or out on the following arguments for why he might be paid that, right? Here's a why. Yeah. Okay. And I'm looking at the I'm looking at the background of this journalist and clearly he has no expertise in this area, but nonetheless, go ahead. Yeah. Yeah. Number one. Doesn't matter. He wrote a good headline and we can use it. Number one, the turnaround strategy. Brian Nickel came in to turnaround Starbucks. The turnaround strategy is working. Brian Nickel made more than any other restaurant CEO per share. The stock is up. It's like the the foot traffic is up. They closed some stores, they've started to do the things like you know, put the couches back in and it and try to make it a little less sterile. Like they you know, it was it was like i it was you mobile order and they'd throw you your coffee like as you walked by and they wanted nothing to do with you. The baristas were exhausted. They're ne they're so he's doing some stuff that's actually working. That's number one. Okay. Yeah. sure, I guess in the in the short term I'll believe that. So so it was I'm I'm looking at the yeah, I mean i i but to be fair, I mean i it was a sexy hire in the sense that people seem to love Chipotle and things were going so poorly under Laxman Near Siemen that the market it seems like they would have reacted positively to anyone. So I don't know if that's what this bounce is about, but go ahead, keep going. Number two, he's pa All right, number two. Well, so I'm gonna give you arguments for and in and out. Number two, the Starbucks pay committee is an absolute mess of overpaying, interconnected directors. Rich Allison is the chair, he bats two forty-nine on CEO pay ratio. Andy Campion bats point zero four one. Mike Sievert.067. Neil Mohan point zero three one. That's literally. Right. Some of the highest paying directors on a CEO pay ratio basis in our entire database. And that's not like a one-year sample. There's a minimum of three years and two boards. So these are people who do it in multiple places. They just love to pay the CEOs wherever they go. So obviously, he earns 31 million because they don't give a shit how much he earns. They're just gonna pay him 31 million. The question here's why he's paid that is 'cause the people on the pay committee gave it to him. That's it. It doesn't have anything to do with anything otherwise. Yeah, 'cause he made what did you say? He made ninety eight million last year and thirty and thirty one million this year. And I and I can't believe I'm even saying this, but even twenty million for each year would have been enough. And they would have saved eighty million dollars. Ninety six million as his golden hello from these people. Well, the article does make the point of saying that the next highest paid, you know, restaurant CEO, Chris Kemczynski from McDonald's, made like twenty million. So he's already like fifty percent more than the next highest paid. And these are summary comp numbers. These aren't realized comp numbers, meaning this is what they write down that they are valuing the pay at, but when he actually sells the stock. Uh-huh. That he they're giving him as like most of it is long-term stock, right? When they actually sell the stock, it's worth way more than that, just if it keeps up with the market. He doesn't have to do better than the market. He'll get paid way more. So, number two, it's just the Starbucks pay committee. Number three, all the execs make a lot of money. In fact, there was an article, it's on the Free Flow Analytics platform now. If you go to the Starbucks, you know, page and you go all the way down to the bottom, there's an article there that says not only did Brian Nickel make a lot, but all the bosses got paid a lot. Isn't it a good sign when all the bosses are getting paid? It means that it's not like they're paying the one guy. They're paying a whole team and they're making money. The stores are making money. They can afford to spread some around to the other executives too. That could be a good sign. So he got paid 31 million because they're making it and everyone's getting it. Right. I guess. What about the baristas? Wha what happened to the the the the the workers struggle though? Alright. No. Well, let's go to them. Not everyone is making money. The bosses are making money. Number four, Starbucks actually regressed its offer to the union. They st they just sued them for using the Starbucks logo as part of their union. They sued the union for trademark infringement for using the Starbucks logo. It's the Starbucks union. They sue the union? Wow. Wait. Yeah, wouldn't they be allowed to use the logo? Well, we don't know what the re we don't know what the results of the law case will will be, although we know how powerful the legal team must be at Starbucks. No, it's trademarked by the corporation. Well, they probably are hiring Uber's legal team, so they they probably won't smear the union. The w they won't shame them even a little bit. but Nickel, remember, Nickel refused to negotiate with them when he started and he actually excluded them from the bonus pool. Didn't he announce like we're gonna pay all these bonuses to baristas? But sorry, we can't pay it to the the union because we have to negotiate with you guys. Sorry. Yach, yeah. Yeah, which sounds a bit like Yeah, which sounds like blackmail to get you to drop out of the union basically. Like financial blackmail, yeah. That's right. So so so really maybe part of the turnaround strategy has been fucking the union as much as possible. Not so much making all the money. And then finally, fifth, another reason to be in or out. The stock is up twenty percent. Fifteen percent in the last year, it's beating the SP slightly. The stock is up. So pay the pay the man. Pay the man. That's it though. But that's it. That but that's it. That's that's why everyone's calling this a success story, right? Because they after a bunch of bad succession planning and Howard Schultz can't quit and he was dominating the the the company, they found someone from a company that people love because everyone you know people love tacos and burritos, and now the market is happy. I th that's it that's it. That's how we justify paying a CEO a lot of money, right? And not to mention that Rats. I my first point out of all this when you said the turn turnaround strategy is working, yeah, in the short term, in the very short term. Sure, I guess. But I don't know. I mean it was c all credit to Howard Schultz. He's the one who addicted all the the the drug users who come to Starbucks every day in the drive-thru and get their so I I don't I don't know how br anyway, I I don't what am I what am I saying here? In and out on what? On what So are you in or out on on Brian Nickel, the reasons why he got paid thirty one million? A you are you saying that like i w any any well pick pick one. Which one are you the most in or the most out on? What's pushing you out? What's pushing you in? I'm out. Far out. Well, and I would hope that people and I would hope that the people 'cause I think that generally speaking, Starbucks drinkers are pretty middle class, lower middle class. I would think that like me they would be upset that this ongoing labor struggle is like entering it's like nineteenth year. I I mean I mean f figure this out. I'm I'm out base on that. Like they keep kicking it can down the road. Now they're humiliating them by with withholding bonuses and suing the union. I guess humiliating. Yeah. Yeah. All right. That's that's a good reason to be out. All right. Now I see you have a Elon Musk headline, so I'll get to my Elon Musk headline. it's a bit tangential, but it's still about Elon Musk. Jeffries ESG chief says investors overstate SpaceX governance risk. So this is Annikette Shaw. He says people who try to put governance into some kind of strait jacket are too simple minded and frankly speaking, not looking at data. That's the key that that's the key there. Yo So he's basically calling people like us out and saying you're stupid. there he said he said also there's no acceptable form of good governance. He said, like that's not a real thing, which which is conf I gotta scratch my head on that one. But so I mean what's the point of anything really? Anniket Shaw. But but so based on this, he's saying that you're being too simple minded by not praising Elon Musk. Are you now in or out on SpaceX? Did he change your mind? Okay, one more. No. So okay. I yeah, just do the next one. Yeah, well go ahead. One more for SpaceX. Bill Ackman says this is a great headline. I love this headline. Bill Ackman says never bet against Elon even as he passes on SpaceX stock. So he's he's out. He's not gonna he's not investing. He's not gonna buy the are you kidding? He's not gonna buy the stock. He's gonna he's gonna like But he said he he said the quote i never bet against Elon. So did did Bill change your mind? Are you in or out on SpaceX? I know that's confusing on that one, but Okay. So what do you have on SpaceX? Yeah. Go ahead. No, no, Bill didn't change my mind. let me just I'm gonna add to this, ready? Because here the headline is SpaceX's first ever earnings report comes with stock under pressure. So today, tonight, the stock the the the it's not out yet. I think it's after the close. The the they'll they'll release the results of, you know, the the first earnings report for SpaceX, the first quarter. so straight up, in or out, buying SpaceX with it cheap. Is it out? Is it out? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Cheap. p cheaper. It's not two dollars. It's isn't it still a hundred dollars? Yeah. Or are you selling? Because this look, the fact is the stock is cheaper than it was at the IPO. It's cheaper. so here are reasons to buy, reasons to sell. Elon Musk still runs it like an uncontrolled dictator with sycophans surrounding him. That's I mean, even worse, he's like ch he's basically trying to colonize space. I mean that's that scares me. I like colonized space. He's trying to colonize Earth with his semen too. He's the worst. He's the worst. how about this as a reason? Anakin Shaw said, Yeah, I know you shouldn't be so parochial. So Well that's true. He's doing both. He's doing both. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, well just mentioned him. Yeah, Jeffries. And Anakin Shaw. I know I know people on your network are listening and I know you might be listening. Reach out to us 'cause I love I love that you think we're not looking at the data. Reach out to us. I well he what he what his point was was you shouldn't be parochial because you could miss a quote generational wealth event. He basically was saying if you were so, you know, like you know, governista, which apparently is now a growing trend, the backlash against governistas, it's Jeff Sonnenfeld, Anakit Shaw, like everybody hates a good governance person. Yeah, they all hate us. Could you could miss. Elon Musk himself thinks that ESG people are the devil. Yeah. he said like if you hadn't bought Facebook, you'd miss the like two thousand percent return, or if you didn't buy Tesla because it was a shit show of governance, you would have missed twenty-seven thousand percent returns. First of all, no one bought Tesla like 20 years ago and sat on it except for like a small handful of people, and it looked like a horrible bet, period. Elon Musk didn't start Tesla, he turned it into a shit show and he turned it into a meme stock, and that's how he made all his money. Wow. Yeah. Great. Yeah. Did did he did Annika to be fair to Annika Shah, did he actually mention Facebook? So I mean, I I bet you the return on things like human trafficking is pretty high. Why don't I get into that? I can make a lot of money on No, but I'm serious, like but but but but s but but scientists, academics, I so many people now are are are saying like the ills caused by social media by Zuckerberg so bad that they Yeah, he did. Yeah, yeah. Well th that's that's where it kind of falls apart, right? the the CEOs of these companies themselves don't let their kids access it. So yeah, why don't I just I happen to know that the security guard at a bank near me sleeps a lot because he he gets Wendy's every every for lunch and he falls asleep. How don't I why don't I rob that bank? That's a that's a that's a generational wealth event that I I right? I could hand it over to my kids. This look, y I I think I think he might I I think he would say you're being a little too simple minded. Like you're not though the the fact is, like his argument is you should be willing to trade all your rights if the stock goes up. That's all that's all he's saying, right? Y throw everything out the window, have no like because if you don't make the money. Is that all life is on a good show? That's how all life is to you? I'm being parochial. Dumb. Your eth ethics and morals. Yeah, sure. Then you've missed a generational wealth of it. A as if you just bought the SP five hundred, you wouldn't have made a whole bunch of money either. How much fucking money do you need? Well Well you know here's what pisses me off too, if we're gonna talk about the the Jeffree's global head of sustainability, Aniket Shaw. And I know you're listening. And hi, hi Annika. And you should you should use and you should use our database because we have much better data than you're accessing, Annika, because we we have proprietary data that the ESG world has never seen before. it's quite amazing. kudos to the the developers of the platform. really genius stuff if you're into ESG data. But he said He's he's in my LinkedIn network. I I've met him before. He's nice. Quote, investors who rely on governance checklists alone risk overlooking companies capable of generating substantial long term returns, particularly founder led businesses that concentrate decision making power in a single executive. Now, Annika, do I have to tell you the long term risks associated with that statement are they're through the I mean they're they're over, they're like bigger than Mars. I you want me to put you want me to long term put. Yeah. This is Everything into a company that relies on one single especially someone as a a lunatic like Elon Musk. How how do I know where he's gonna be in two years? But how do I know? How do I know what he's gonna wanna do with SpaceX in two years? That's that's ludicrous it's ludicrous. Absolutely ludicrous. This is literally the Jeff Sonnenfeld argument. He just made the Jeff Sonnen. He said, We're too focused on checklists. You know, here's the thing. I I I I'll say I'll say this, I'll say this about the data that we have. Like, because he I he claimed that we're not looking at the data, except that we have all the data and we know nobody else has it. So like we're the only ones looking at the data. The data we have around people. Actually suggests the exact opposite. Sure, you could make a lot of money on the stock, it is possible. But there are 25% of US companies are totalitarian. That means one in four US companies, basically, you have fewer rights, and those companies are not generational wealth events. If I invested in just those companies, I would not get just generational wealth events constantly. In fact, Yeah. I would get some of the worst outcomes I could possibly get because those are the same companies that screw up huge swaths of humanity that basically can be the absolute worst companies in terms of governance. They do all sorts of stuff like fraud. The fraud doesn't just happen at like the, you know, the the the Enrons of the world, although that was a totalitarian company. Like these that happens everywhere. Like so what are you talking about? Course. Sure. Yeah. Like the the data actually suggests that people being deferential, that teams that are not like looking at risk adjusted returns over the long term in terms of boards, relying on one person that that's like religious thinking applied to capital markets. And relying on a single executive, as he says. Decision making d decision making power in a single executive, yeah. Yes. I'm glad you said that. I'm glad you said that because he Annika is lying to all of us w by saying that we are not looking at the data. 'Cause actually we are looking at the he's not looking at the data because he's using his feelings. He's following a a like a religious path to e to people like Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg 'cause it 'cause his feelings are telling him that. That that's all. and good luck with with all that, Annika, as if if Elon abandons the company in three years or if these You know, these the the amount of lawsuits and and parts of the world coming after meta and Facebook and Zuck right now are i it's you know, the the the the challenge is rising. The defense is coming. So I I don't know. Anyway, I I'm out. I don't even know what you asked me, but I'm out. Okay. Finally I'm gonna wrap up on this. I have two quick ones for and you have one more, right? so so are you win it doesn't really matter, you're out. all right. Yeah, I got it. yeah, I got one more. That's quick. I have two quick ones from Mark Zuckerberg. These going to be easy. We're talking about Zuck. In or out based on this headline. Quick one, because we got to wrap this up. Mark Zuckerberg says AI will create an infinite, infinite, right? Infinite Instagram. He outlined a vision where AI generated content becomes a third major source of content. How in or out on that? I hor I'm a I'm not even on Instagram. I hate him so much. Annika, Annika, sh what do you think, Annika? This could be a moment of generational wealth, right? I should support this, right? Because I person if I personally can can get a little bit richer, I probably should should support this maniac's vision of an infinite Instagram where people will never leave their phones again. I love it. or how about this one? One more inner out. Inner out on the Chan Zuckerberg initiative, based on this headline, Mark Zuckerberg and Priscilla Chan's school. AI slop. is the latest billionaire education experiment to collapse. So they're blaming a shift in the Chan Zuckerberg initiative's philanthrop th philanthropic priorities from social advocacy towards scientific philanthropy, right? But which is their way of saying we're we agree with Trump, the D DEI crap and the black people women is all stupid. Gay people are stupid. But here's the part I want I here's why I picked the story. We got rid of the black people. Yeah. Yeah. Because the the hypocrisy is is ma it stinks. Chan, his wife, said, told the Wall Street Journal last year, and she's referring to the school, the outcomes just weren't were not where the board would have wanted them to be. So she's saying that the board is out. Right, the board, the board. So the irony here, because cause Zuck. Lord of Chan Zuckerberg. Zuckerberg doesn't have a board. It's all him. He has all the influence, all the voting power. But she's saying that the board said that the the c the school sucked. So we're we're I know we promised hundreds of kids this free school, but we're gonna close it because the board d I I just I couldn't believe that. She's Two of the members of the board are Chan and Zuckerberg. Like w what what are we even pretending? We're pretending that the board matters? Yeah. There you go. I I it's yeah, I'm sorry, Anakit Shah, but some of us are a little bit nuanced in your your approach to the world by making money. So what's your last one? I guess I'm guessing you're out on the Chan Bur the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative based on their board members. All right. Go ahead. Go ahead. Yeah. Let's wrap up quickly. that was an easy out. Mine is an easy out too. Here's the headline. Let's wrap up with this. Here's the headline. Meritocracy claims make managers pay men more than equally qualified women. In or out. Men or women. Yeah, I'm look, I'm glad you flagged this and I'm glad that I'm glad that the people who are are who were reporting on this are are covering this because this is a very important headline that you just mentioned, right? Well so so just so you know what the background is, it was this is it was an MIT study. They actually got like a whole group of people and they basically, you know, had them pay bonuses to, you know, equ the two different companies. They set up an experiment where they were gonna pay bonuses and they did a a a man and a woman who had the exact same resumes. And what they found was when the program under which the bonus got paid w said meritocracy, the men made forty-six dollars more than the women. This is important. Yep. When they took the word meritocracy out, the women made more money and it was the exact same resume. So what they found was the word meritocracy is so embedded in our biased brains to be men are better. That's all it means to humans. That's all it means. Course. Yes. Toward men. Yeah. I g I I can't I can't believe we're still fighting this. I mean you referred to the story that happened I think we were at State Street, right? We're t we're talking about the the women on boards report from MSCI where where the some you know some some snivell some like some angry men were challenging like, you know, how do you prove that the the the women are w gonna be better for returns? And we we simply said, Look, well, how do you prove that the men are gonna have better and you know of course they just stared at us like like lemmings. How are we still fighting this? How are we still doing this? How are we still doing this? Yeah, and it's not o and it's not okay that that women are getting paid less based on this. Just s it's simply not okay. I I don't know. That was twenty years ago. That was like I remember FreeFlo had a client that was asking, they said, remember they said, we ride winners. And that and that's like mer that's like a meritocracy argument, right? Like we the winners, like we they they we they earned it. We ride winners. That's how they choose stocks. Our f our question was, how do you define a winner? What's a winner? And they were like, I Yes. That was a big comp that was a big investment fund. I remember that. Well that's what Onnikate that's what Onicate Shaw is saying, like i and I yeah. You can't and the d and the data won't get the data won't get you there. They were like we we just know them when we see them. Like are you gonna are you nuts? That's that's that's why it's all boys. That's why. We know know them when we see Hey Yeah, they know them. They know them when they see them. Yeah. They use they use their hindsight to to to know them when they see them. That's what they do. I'm exhausted. This was a this was an instructive show. I've learned a lot. Hey, we got it. So I'm gonna guess you're out on that. On on men, in on women. All right, that's it. That's Hazelnut Rawls. I'm your analyst, Tol Matt Muscari. We free float. We've got another show coming up on Friday, but after that, week off. You just got a week of silence, maybe even two weeks. Next week. Next week. I'm gone. I'm going to see the eclipse. I'm going to be in Spain watching a total eclipse. Wait, when when when is this? Next week? Are you going to see the eclipse? I like it. Hopefully I don't get engulfed in climate change related fires and and Moroccan immigrant. Yeah. well, we'll see how it goes. If you want access to the Free Flow Analytics website, the beta platform, let us know. We'll even give you permission to access, and you could test it for a while and see how amazing it is with everything. You know, just just let us know. until then, good. Well for you will, you will. I will I I will say I'm not jealous. I'm not jealous. That's all I'm gonna say. You do, you do. Onikate Shaw, you need this. Bye.