Transcript
Pursuit of other. Things working today live. Don't jinx it from black rocks, pickleball, scented mason jar collection, Yeah, why does BlackRock need that? It's yet another woke Wednesday edition of business fans joined as always by analysts whole Matt mascardi. Yeah. Hey in today's woke data polka dotted sweatpants called February 21st 2024 Two classic headlines. 75,000. Happy nerds. Five. Shareholder activist arm wrestling contests 0.5% of Jeff bezos's left earlobe. The second class Cliff Australian CEO apology tour, and the last six months and match famous deep fried Norfolk Southern extra crispy board of directors chicken wings. Wow. First of all that you're like Dickinson. That's all true though. Everything I just mentioned. We're gonna cover. You want to get right to it? Yeah, we need to because that is a lot of things and I have things to say. Here we go. In my first category today. This one's called just called. Let the headline do the talking? I don't I like this category. No analysis. It's just I just love these two headlines. First of all, This first one is just absurd. But you know, really represents the state of our world really well. Google co-founder Sergey Brin. Sued. By the Widow of a pilot who has who was flying, one of the billionaires planes to his private island in Fiji, when it crashed. Wait a minute, I shouldn't lie, died in the crash and he sued the Widow. So he so the widows suing Sergey Brin of the Widow was suing, Sergeant is being sued because of some some Malarkey concoction that he made the pilot come up with to help him fly around to all his different private islands and the plane was safe. It's a terrible. Yeah, I don't like that. I don't like any of that. And the next headline, let the headline to the talking This is from Fortune. The idea that globalization is dead. It's a little absurd, says globalization Partners CEO. I just like how stupid that was. All right, let's move on the real stories. I like that. Does that CEO have a name? Her name is Nicole? Sahin. She's a woman. Nicole saw. Well, that's nice. Yeah, I'm just glad she's named. Okay, let's go over to stakeholders. Rule a bunch of stories this week. This is our category, stakeholders rule. Here's a new one map. Reddit heard it right? So social media company, right, legally? Yeah, Reddit plans to IPO. I think it's coming in March. They haven't really used the filing papers yet, but I think they're coming statement yet. Yeah, she becoming by the end of February but here's their plan. They're playing to reserve shares. For its some of its biggest users except their gonna Reserve shares for 75,000 of the most prolific so called redditors. So they're reserving shares of their IPO forts users. That doesn't seem unusual. yeah, I put it what I don't know. Yeah nothing to say know how to assess that good I suppose it's good. It feels good right? It feels kind of folksy. Except like, what if they're the most prolific? Nazis? Could be a cesspool. It could be racist misogynists, Nazis. I mean, are they vetting? That are they not? They do, they not just most prolific, I'm hoping this information will be in the filing paper. So I want the full list of like, you know, you've six nine is getting seven shares. So this is the first IPO of a major social media company. Since Pinterest back in 2019. I can't believe it's been that long. I know. Well, I can and don't care and a few governance notes about Reddit. First of all, it's led by a boomerang founder, a CEO, Steve Huffman, so he he left the company in came back. So, okay, sure. And again, this is Reddit where former CEO and co-founder Alexis Ohanian. He famously stepped down from the board in June of 2020. And he asked the company to fill his position with a black board member. Remember this for the George Floyd Floyd now there's a, there's a few problems with this situation. First of all, hats off, I guess to Alexis because that seems like the right thing to do. But Um, at the time. Reddit had never had a Blackboard member and Alexis could have appointed one, right? Yeah. And the other part was, of course, that as you referenced before, read it was kind of a cesspool of racists, a little. So they so that was part of the reason why they needed a Blackboard members, it's kind of an uncomfortable beginning for the man who turned out to be Michael Seibel, who came from he was at Y combinator and then he became a director at Dropbox, a few months later where he has two percent of influence, compared to founder and CEO Houston. Well, that's a totalitarian, Drew Houston has over 70% of influence a Dropbox. He's on the meta platforms board with Mark Zuckerberg, and I'm guessing that that's gonna be the case here at work. We're Steve Huffman CEO will have it outside of influence. So yeah, if they're giving 75,000 shares and then they have B shares in those 75,000 read, or chairs are like, don't have a vote, what the point. like, I was hoping it would be nice if they gave it all to the Wall Street bets crowd and then they all shorted Reddit, that would be kind of Okay. A bunch of shareholder activist stories in the news, Matt, a lot of stuff, one of which you're gonna cover later, but first of all, investment firm, Buxton Helmsley groups that it nominated four directors. Why are you laughing at them? This is the name is, I know I've never heard the nominating four directors to the board at fossil Group after the cut after the company stock lost three quarters of its value over the last year. About fossil group, Matt CEO, chair and founder Costa. Cart sodas has been a director since 1990. And according to the proxy statement has more aggregate board, tenure than the rest of the board combined. Oh, I like that stat and fossil group. This thing I never seen before, they list 10 year, rounded to the nearest half year. It's kind of what three year old has like a? He wants you to know, he's two and a half years old right? Like he. Oh no. We want, you know, he's three and a half. I don't even know three and a half. So, yeah, because they, they have two directors that show 10 year of 0.5, and 3.5 years on their project, I've never seen that before, never seen that, I like that. I like that. I have to say that. I like that is fossil is the watch company, right? I don't know. Is it possible that they lost three quarters of the value? Because nobody buys like old watches anymore. Everyone's got like Apple watch or Samsung watch speaking of places that people don't seem to go anymore. Macy's investment firm Ark house management has launched a proxy fight, they're nominating, nine directors, A group of investors led by and Cora Holdings. They want a new CEO, a new CEO, and eight new directors at Norfolk. Southern you're gonna cover that later, right? Yeah. And then Carl Icahn been busy this week. He gets two seats at JetBlue and two seats at American, Electric Power. A JetBlue Icahn disclosed about 10% of ownership stake, this Monday? And that's the same day that new glass Cliffs CEO. Joanna Garrity took over the job. So as is the way with Carl Icahn, he appointed to JetBlue's board, his Icahn Enterprises General, Consul Jesse Lin and icon Capital portfolio manager, Stephen Miller and but not his son and an American Electric Power. He appointed senior managing director icon, Enterprise's Hunter, Gary, he's all so American Electric Power. He's putting the new CEO of Icon Enterprise's, Andrew 10 was going to be putting him on the board as a non-voting, Observer. Oh, that sounds uncomfortable. Yeah. What do they do? They sit there and they stare at you. So this is how Carl like an operates his ego. Just puts his own people on people's know. I want to remind our listeners about a little bit about Carla icon. This is the same guy who owns Icahn Enterprises, right? There's there's stock price was 122 dollars in December of 2013, was 54 dollars last February and currently sits just under 20 dollars, so he can't figure out his own company. And yet it's because it's basically a Ponzi scheme so I so I hit the Hindenburg research. Yeah and may of 2023 accused Icahn Enterprises of overvaluing withholdings and relying on a ponzi-like structure of pay dividend. And Matt just today Icon Enterprise warrant shareholders of a sequential Decline and it's indicative, net asset value, whatever that means in the fourth order sending shares down another 11%. So I mean, I just had to point all this out because just the the sheer ego of this man who whose own firm is not only struggling pretty badly, but he called up for being a Ponzi scheme. Stop it. He operates the best Ponzi scheme that's ever for it. This is why the directors on these boards, do absolutely matter, right? Because even if they come from a shareholder from an activist, they still might be unscrupulous characters, right? That shareholders should pay attention to All right. Well, unscrupulous, might be a term too far. They just operate a Ponzi scheme. That's not unscrupulous. I just I can't believe this man's ego, honestly. I mean his own company. Its stock price is failing miserably. Let's move over to the category CEOs rule map because we have yet another crazy glass. Cliff CEO apology tour happening in Australia. Oh, This one this time at Woolworths. Remember the last one was at Qantas Airlines, right? Yeah. It was a great run for Qantas. This is a world Woolworths. This the Department's the grocery store, the store will worth the story. Yeah. That we like Macy's store. Yeah. We used to have them where I grew up but they're gone. I don't know. They exist in America anymore. I don't know that they exist in Australia. They do it just do exist in Australia. They're part of a duopoly with coals that controls over 65% of Australia's Supermarket sector CEO. Brad duci was on a was being interviewed by a news reporter this week. He was being asked a tough line of questioning about price gouging going on on Australia right greed inflation going on across the globe and he got so angry with the reporter that he walked away. He walked out of the interview, he was pissed off. So he walked away. So poor baby because of this angry shareholders angry customers. Called for his job, right? Saying like, you know, how dare this guy should step down and then he did, he announced his resignation today. I know this is exactly like the quanta story is exactly. And and it's another glass Cliff CEO because Amanda Bardwell is taking up. They found a woman to immediately replace him Brad. And here's a quote from a social media. User online is bra is Brad bonucci trying to fill Allen Joyce's shoes and take the title of the most hated CEO in Australia. So Alan Joyce was the guy stepped down a cuantas, so my head is spinning. I know and I know you hate these Australian stories but I don't care. I like us. Okay, so I want to point something else out here that will with group chair Scott Perkins who actually met our data shows to have the most influence at. So he controls 21% of the influence. The CEO formerly held 19% of the influence. He's the longest serving to Woolworths. In fact, Matt, he sits on all five board committees. And that's not good and is the chair of the nominating committee and he has not good. He said in reaction to Brad banducci stepping down that his departure was not influenced by the controversies and praised him as one of the companies finest leaders. That's not good. So I asked you with how long before Scott, Perkins. Yes, right. When do we find out exactly how bad it? Because we complained about the exact same thing at Quantus, I think his name was was what was his name? I should know this. I didn't write it down, but he, and then that chair lost his job, a few months later. Yeah. So I don't know, how long Scott Perkins gonna keep his job. He agreed to agree to stand at the next AGM, right. Like, none of these people lose their jobs. That's part of the thing that I'm finding. In fact, when we talk about Norfolk, Southern no one lost their job, they're just retiring. And in spending more time with their families. And I'll say this about Scott Perkins, the chair of Woolworths who soon to lose his job or will step down or whatever. He's all righty, the chair of origin energy, and a director at brambles to big Australian companies. So he's he's he'll be fine. He'll still he's got he's already busy stuff to do. Yeah that's what's going on in Australia. Another weird apology tour with a glass Cliff, CEO. I guess this is how Australians operate right there. There's CEO goes down disgrace and they quickly find a woman in kind of shove her into the role. That doesn't sound just like Australians are not just sounds like World. Get Mom to clean up our mess. That's the way every male run company seems to operate and finally in the news of powerful men, how about this one Matt? Jeff Bezos? Remember Jeff Bezos? Vaguely? Yeah, he's the name Rings about founder and former CEO Amazon still the executive chair. So he has sold another 14 million, Amazon shares worth around two billion dollars. That means that the total number of shares, he is sold in the last nine days, is 50 million shares with a value of almost nine billion dollars. Okay? Matt, I want to try to put this in the contact, 50 million shares, the value of nine billion dollars. Guess how many shares he has left? Matt, he just sold 50 million shares worth 9 billion. Dollars. I mean he can't have how like I I don't know. He's got another 10 billion left. Maybe half. Okay. Matt he sold 50 million shares valued at 9 billion dollars. He still has one billion 208 million shit. I mean no surfaces Matt, his overall ownership percentage plummeted from 12.3% to 11.8%. I mean, this is, yes, crazy. It's too much power and well in the hands of a single CEO Founders. It's not. It's it's nonsense. It's pure nonsense. If you can sneeze and make two billion dollars billion with the b. I and yeah I still own 12% of the company. So they need to change. I mean we have you know firm after firm telling us that we shouldn't be too aggressive towards directors and vote them out but and this is what happened, I mean, something needs to change, I don't know. What? I don't know how but absolutely absurd. So those are my stories. I reference your story earlier Matt and that is that Norfolk Southern and core a group of investors led by Ankara Holdings. Ones basically everybody to lose their job at correct. Let's talk about that. Oh, it's exhausted. And I was a lot for you. I want you to think, though about Norfolk Southern as basically being the Boeing of land trap side, okay? Um, which makes some sense considering Bowie's planes fall out of the sky and stuff. Falls off them. And that's what happens with these trains. They just fall off the tracks and stuff spills all the time, the investor group and Cora announced us. This is this is their headline and their press release investor group announces, slate of Highly qualified, independent director, candidates and proposed management team for North Southern Corporation. And Cora's Ohio based they've launched a website called move and NSC forward.com and C being good Workshop that day maybe. Yeah okay. Yeah. Not a great name because when you look at it like the website it looks like moving forward, right? Like it doesn't what like you? What's Nelson? Pelts is one of Disney return, the to the magic or something. Yeah, yeah, get the magic back, yeah, I guess pretty stupid. Yeah. Um, is the plan for Aunt? Cora here is to replace the Norfolk Southern CEO, Alan Shaw, I still have a job. It's still kept his job, right? Eliza's job. He was elected to this job after being, he's a lifer at Norfolk Southern and he came from like the marketing department and he was elected in 2022 by the board to the CEO role. If we're honest, he was hand-picked by the prior CEO to do this and the board just rubber stamped it, they didn't elect him. Okay, sure they're saying replace him with Jim Barber. Who was the CEO at UPS and they want to also replace and you don't see this that often know they are suggesting that they should also replace the CEO Paul Duncan with Jamie Boychuk who is from CSX a Canadian railroad. He was the Executive Vice President of opiates CSX. I will say this, the good thing about CSX is they also have a slew of problems. Oh yeah for decades. Yeah for basically they just live in problems. The seven director slate. That's up here. Includes Betsy Atkins who if you don't know Betsy Atkins she's currently on five boards. Wow not including this board really? She's gonna have to quit one. Wow. Most likely that's the best way to get on there. All right. That was the best. They could do. She's highly influential on all these boards actually but a middle performer, she best 437 earnings as well. Yes she's busy one of those boards is Wynn Resorts. That's the biggest and she's actually connected to like half the board there. But she's a super border. She actually has in her history, 18 plus board. Wow, she sat on, Wow eighteen boards. Well, this is all she does. Oh, professional director. So, I will say to the benefit of Ankara Holdings. That yes, of course any any product proxy contest? You should have Betsy Atkins involved, right? What Betsy Atkins on, you got a professional board member, you know that she's done the job before. You know she knows how to rubber stamp with the seat new CEO says she knows how to do that. They're adding Bill Clyburn Junior who's an ex railroad regulator. He was Senate council, he's government one. He's based in DC, you might need that. Yeah, Nelda Connors. Okay. Now they found two women who are on the most boards they could find. Now the Conners is currently on four boards. All right, she is a middle performer. Also, 423 earnings 4:36. TSR Baker, Hughes is the biggest Sports. She's on where she's connected to all those direct. Why do we think that Ankara has done? This is that they think that they can control their voice like Betsy and elda's Voice or they just they just they're drawn to their experience. Like, what's the deal? Well, it seems like the strategy here is they have a strategy? Okay, they clearly are constructing this strategically and we'll get to what I think the strategy goes. And where it doesn't work. Samay Fami these xcsx. Oh, another CX CSX, and he was at Canada National Railroad. So two Canadian railroads and I think CSX bought CN actually at some point John Kasich, you know, John Cage. Oh yeah, ex-governor of Ohio, one of the that's a nod East Palestine, okay? If ever there was not forget that CEO Alan Shawn on the board of Norfolk Southern basically, just I mean, I didn't destroy a town but they tried their hardest know. They spilled a bunch of stuff over the town. They did their best to kind of ruin the soul of the Town. That's yeah. Okay, the soul I'll give you Soul. Okay, Gilbert lamphere all. So XCX boy and xcn, Boards CSX here. Um and Allison Landry who's on the XPO board, which is not just a logistics company based in Connecticut and where she is a actually a poor performer, 408 earnings but 237 TSR and the bottom 10% for controversies. Well, that's appropriate for a railroad board. I was so that fits, but this is what they said in their presentation. I went through all like 100 pages of their presentation, the quote, the board lacks sufficient railroad industry experience. This is of Norfolk, Southern the board lacks sufficient railroad industry experience and is instead comprised of interconnected directors, who have irrelevant experience in the energy, retail and entertainment, sectors explaining most S&P 500 boards. They basically just experience analytics experience in the industry, you're aiming to provide oversight for Plus you all know each other. They said you all know each other and you don't know what you're doing here. That's what they said. I applaud this statement they were 100% correct about that. This is an interconnected board. They have passed throughs from cenovus energy. They actually have connections why? I think of them as Boeing. They have connections back to Boeing and caterpillar and other American royalty boards. They're very it's a very small, you know, set a degrees back to those boards. And this is insane to me, they can't even after East Palestine. They can't even audit themselves correctly. This is how insular they are in 2023. Norfolk Southern appointed Atkins, nuclear secured, which is a subsidiary of essence, sea, leveling to do a safety audit on their Railroads, right? Like they they basically like they're spilling shit everywhere. And so they said let's get an independent safety audit done so that people shut up and tell us that we're we can be told were great, the lead auditor was a person named Admiral Kirk Donald, he's a US Navy, retired US Navy. A&S Atkins, nuclear, the auditor. Actually was reporting directly to the CEO. So not an independent committee and this is something that in Coral points out, not an independent Committee of the board, it reported to the CEO. So the CEOs in control of paying the auditor for the safety thing that the CEO will then say they're perfectly safe and they're great. What's with all the Admirals? We reported last week about the Boeing bathroom situation. Boeing has its own Admiral and they're on their board. That Admiral is actually connected to this airport. That's how I found the connection. But why does it? Why do boards needles? Well, not only do boards need Admirals, but there's only 270 active Navy. Admirals at any one time and Norfolk Southern managed to not only find an auditor, who is an ad was an at an admiral in the Navy. They have a Navy Admiral on their board, who worked on a report with the auditor Navy Admiral about like nuclear subs. So the Admirals know each other. So now you have a board that the auditor reports to the CEO and the board. One of the board members in Norfolk Southern is an admiral. Who knows the lead auditor? Who's also an ad on? That's what we have going on. It's almost like these people. Like they took this money python made a movie. I think of the meaning of life where they they lampooned corporate Raiders, right? And the the joke was with was that the The buildings they were in became pirate ships, and they both sort of attacking each other, right? Because the, because the corporate Raiders and Pirates were attacked. You have Raiders, the Raiders Big Pun, is that what is going on here? Does that why all these American boards? Think they need? Add rules that? They take that movie, seriously, that movie was a joke, is that time might have well. So like, it looks like this is something that and Cora wants to rectify. But when I looked at the replacement board, all those people I listed they're not exactly the gold standard of like non-connected board members. Here's what I found out, just looking at them and this is a cursory look. I did this this morning, okay? So we didn't do in Coral level Deep dive into the data here to pick these people. The new CEO is from UPS but the CEO, guess where he worked. Well, you said CSS, right? Two of the board members that they would be adding would be from CSX. And the new CEO would be from cos so, like a waste already like we've got a problem. Yeah, I think one is enough. The CEO was from UPS, maybe that could be the new motto. Maybe one is enough, is the new motto for boards, right? For corporate boards, right? I mean, one is enough, I mean, if you're looking for diversity, not just like the normal areas of diversity. We think of, but I just in diversity and thought and skill, set and background. I think one is enough really is enough. It was special for coming from CSX. Yes. Well, the CEO is actually UPS. He's on the board of CH Robinson and US Foods. He's actually connected through a man named bobkowski to Pitney Bowes, who was it? Where there's a you UPS exact? So he is connected on the board. He's on to the people that, you know, he's connected to which means I haven't found the direct connection of this CEO to this company yet, but it has to be there, right? Like, there's no way that I like if I dive deep enough, I'll find it, the replacement director's turns out. Like if you're voting for these new directors coming in, there's actually a Canadian national railroad executive exeo on the current board. Oh, is that right? Floyd Mongo mango? Yeah. Okay, monceaux or whatever's. So we're replacing CNN. Experience with swapping out CSX experience, aren't we? Yeah. And this is about, I guess this is just about power, right? Is and Cora just trying to yield its power. I suppose, I guess it's like their strategy appears to be Fine too overboard women. Who are so busy that they can't pay attention. Get the entire team from CSX Ronis on the board here. Sprinkle in a little bit of government flavor with a, you know, keep an admiral, but you also got a government. Wonky, got case it on the board you got and then that call that an upgrade because the current board, only has one executive from cncs and a lot of retail and food experience, and some government on the side because they've got their own Admiral. So this it I don't understand the strategy, doesn't it? Seem like we're replacing one problem with it next and in case? Yeah, I was gonna say, you know, one thing we found this year is we've spent a lot more time really focusing on these proxy. Contests and looking at shareholder activism, a lot of which goes into our other show, the proxy countdown is that a lot of these contested slates being put up, they're just as poorly put together as the companies later because you have money to buy shares. It doesn't mean you have any idea about corporate governance or about even the industry to which you're kind of buying shares into sew the whole aim of their presentation is to basically mirror what CSX is done and just so that we're clear what CSX is done. I pulled the data on CSX themselves, right? Like, so I remember back in the day there, there's a lot of, a lot of controversy. In fact, I remember having spent time living in Canada that they're constantly messing up, they spill all sorts of stuff. But here's some, here's just two data points, just to give you a flavor, okay? Norfolk Southern had 111% increase in accidents, since 2012 between 2012 and 2022 and a 10 year period, they more than doubled, their accident rate, like adjusted like per million, rail miles, whatever. CSX on the other hand, had a 53% increase in National well, so better, I guess. I mean, but we're talking about, I know they suck at accident. Everybody sucks at accidents and Norfolk. Southern a 23% increase in employee injuries since 2012, 23 percent increase. But CSX on the other hand had a 39% increase employee in just a lot that's a lot. It seems like CSX managed to have slightly fewer increases in accidents, the Norfolk Southern butt hurt their employees more and this is that the trade. And this is the guy Jamie Boychuk. You said, was EVP of operations. He was the operation. Is there? That was possible for a 390 increase in employee injury. That's shocking shocking, it's not great. Here was your better bet in quora replace the whole board with European rail. Executives where they do seem to figure out like find a guy working on a European Republic. So it's not a mentor and the government regulated their government run. Why can't you find one or two European rail execs to do to sit on this? Maybe they've never traveled to Europe, and don't know how lovely and wonderful the train system over there. But, you know what, you raise a interesting point here is that why don't American and Canadian multinational companies? Why why are we so afraid to have experts from other parts that the Europeans do it? Well, they always have at least a couple of Americans on their boards. So I don't know. What are we afraid of? Boeing at its first non-us citizen to its board in its history. This past life, that's crazy, four months, that's crazy. Only ones first, and they will claim that it's because of National Security issues, right? Because they make military and technology and they would have to give access to somebody who's not a US national, but no, no one actually believes. That's the case because we are talking about railroads here, we're not talking about National Security. The National Security Hazard is that Norfolk Southern operates railroads? That's the that's the hazard. Well speaking up I'll just say it does demonstrate, just the insular quality of these boards here in America go and every insular in every way they can think of they are they are really, it's like the kid used to know one third grade who needed the crust, cut off of his peanut butter and jelly, right? They just stay there afraid of new things. They just can't try new. They don't want new friends. Can't even try the crust, know just They can't. Yeah. Well, what else you got? Well, the finally wrapping up just in case you were starting to feel good. So Norfolk Southern had a rebuttal talking about how important board refreshment is, how that, in the past five years, they've replaced six different directors. Not that those directors aren't connected to the CEO, or the existing directors, but that they've done it, they've done that and they announced at long last. If you've listened to the show, you'll know this name. They announced that Michael, Lockhart Ya, Head of the Safety Committee is retiring at long lasts. How do you know how long he's been on the board? I didn't pull it, but it's been like 13, 15 years, maybe 17 years long time. He's been on. I've been around for a long time and he got, he somehow managed to retire after the train crashed. He still got. I think an 88% vote for yeah, in the last director elections last year. So he's retiring, he's still going out on the top, he's still. Didn't you sold it out to your point about Australian companies? Nobody really gets pushed out, right? God forbid, God forbid, you call off the safety committee chair at Norfolk Southern and be like this dude, kind of sucks, you let him retire and in Grace, but Norfolk, Southern did have a succession plan for the Safety Committee. He's being replaced by Christopher Jones who's been on the board since 2020. He's exiled on North Grumman, I believe. But tell me if this sounds familiar, this is the last piece that I'm going to. I'll give you In 2021 the first proxy after Jones joined the board. Jones was not listed by Norfolk Southern as having safety years going. Yeah, yeah, in 2022. Oh no. Not listed as having safety experience in 2023. Not listed as having safety experience. What do you want to bet that in 2024 somehow? Oh, he's listed as having safety experience as the head so you're telling me it hasn't happened yet, he hasn't been but it's this is the best prediction you've ever made Lockhart. So here, I agree Lockhart's and retirement is, as of the AGM, the proxy comes out in like, imminently for this company. If it's not even, I don't think it's out yet, but imminently, and my guess is that we will see. He will have found safety expertise somewhere under a rug at the University of Phoenix, a virtual rug, finally, the man got his safety. Red just to head that committee. That's what I got. That's what I got. Let me just add that. Michael Locker is 75 years old so he would be stepping down. Anyway, anyway, this board does not care, they don't care. So here's your recommendation. And Cora is better than not Ankara, but everyone sucks put up, this should be all European rail like absolutely government rail Executives. That's what you actually want here. Forget everything else. That's all we got. That's that's all we got. Oh Wednesday, that's hazelnut Ross. I'm here, we are free float. Come back on tomorrow. We've got a proxy count down Qualcomm, is you recovering. They got an AGM coming up, early, March, and on Friday, we have a wrap of the week with the full team coming back for that until then good. Bye.