Transcript
Live from Damien's. Hazelnut coffee edition of business pants. It's a woke Wednesday. Yeah. Well, you're not very excited to be here. I used to not being the host I'm confused and scared. I'm your analyst whole mattress, Guardian joined live and in person buy hazelnut Rallis and today's auntie auntie, auntie, auntie anti-woke episode Called November 8th, 2023 and anti-wolf ground up a good game, a quick good game. We're gonna do a really quick one, a clip from our interview that we're gonna drop tomorrow with the great Nelson. Oh, and word from our sponsor. Sweet! Oh, Paul, and now together, again, Paul and Nell back together again. Let's the corporate library but they don't know they're together. That's what makes this weird. Makes it even better. Yeah, our show today is being sponsored by ESG age. Your ESG Data Solutions provider. And Paul will stop by to talk pay ratio. So, it was coming here, he's coming. Well, I haven't seen him in a while. He's been driving for three hours looking for parking. Okay, so I don't know if he's gonna get in in time, we, we may send him to Bruegger's, Bagels to get a non College, hazelnut coffee for you. Are you Damien is just reacting today? Cool. How do you feel about this? I'm nervous. But excited. Most excited because I didn't have to do any work nervous. So nervous, feels it seems like the wrong. I'm not the analyst hole, you're the analyst hole, you're not really analyzing anything, okay? You just kind of giving your thoughts. I'll do the fake chuckle. I do that pretty. Well, I do it all the time. All right, let's start with an anti-wolf Roundup. First. A black rock discrimination alert. Um while I have been waiting for Bill Ackman to stop harassing 19 year old stuff. He's still at it, good for him. What a fight, I saw this headline. Five companies added to Texas's divestment list for ESG, anti-oil and gas weight. So they just this actually just recently happened. Yeah, last in the last week, Texas comptroller, Glenn hegar said he's quote. I am he said this? I am quote, I am extremely proud. That Texas was the first state to show leadership by shining a bright light and bringing transparency to the absolutely critical issue. That issue being the boycott of fossil fuel. They're not even speaking the language of like corporate governance and ESG. Yeah they sound like they're riding purpose statements but this is basically how I was sold on the corporate library back in the day. Before I started working there is this was a kind of language of Bob monks used to use about shining a bright light. Yeah but yes so sunlight is The best disinfectant, essentially. Yeah, that's what they're doing. Yeah, crazy. Um, by the way, worth noting that Texas is a client of msci. ESG in order to make these lists, kind of have to be right. The list added the following companies, amp limited credit agricole, impax Asset Management, wrath bone investment management and sock gents Society. What do we know why? What do you think those companies have in common? They're they're, they smell European. They're all European. They're all European is the correct. Yeah. Now, the complete list that they have is, we're back to Freedom fries, 15 companies, long and BlackRock is the only us company on the list of fossil fuel boycotters. The only one Well, there because they're led by a Jewish man. Is that why? I don't even know why this is why open this with Bill actually? Pure is in a phobia. Bill Ackman is now like chasing anybody who's College age, whoever said and anything you could take his anti-semitic, why are we not chasing Texas government officials? Well yeah, but you could simplify it even further, don't forget that he is launching this Crusade on one of the most known. Neo-Nazi. CEO is an American today, Elon Musk. Oh yeah, well in fact he's probably the, I mean, let's be fair, I don't know the private lives of the Fortune 500 CEOs, why not? But for what we do know, what's being reported on Elon Musk is probably the top anti-semite. Is that a little? But I'm serious like ranking. I mean, think about even just the weird anti-george Soros stuff saying within like the last two weeks that he hates Humanity. Yeah. Which is a Jesus is just old-fashioned anti-semitic tropes, so he might be the top hater. And yet, Bill Ackman continues to use his service and complains about anti-semitic teenagers on his teenagers. That's crazy. Yeah, crazy. Well, should Texas be releasing this list entirely on Twitter every single time? Then, is that would that be the ultimate version? I wanted was the controller. He has the, he can just make these decisions without any kind of input, he's making the decisions. He was empowered by the law. They passed last year to make these You can just willy-nilly ad companies to his. There are, there are, there are no there. The the way the law works is they send a letter and ask for stuff, and they warn a company that they could be on the list, ESG McCarthyism, it's 100% that. Okay, cool. Well, also in the news, whoops, oil and gas companies, spill millions of gallons of Wastewater in Texas. That was a headline this week. It looked at a decade's long Wastewater problem, that Texas has. Here's a fun line from that article, quote. A lot of this toxic water just like crude oil tends to get spilled. Not just occasionally, but hundreds of times a year and oiling gas companies are I think currently discriminating against the land in Texas. Not to be immediately cynical but, or skeptical. But are they actually spilling it or these control spills? Like, you know, there's just like spills where they go out afterwards and they're like, oh, Hey look. You got a little over there. Oh part of a way of discharging this type of ways. No no this is these are spilled art coming soon. Probably that's next. Yeah like this is purposeful we had a right to spill on your your pressure purposeful discharging of nastiness. Yeah but there's profit to the shareholders you're the one drinking hazelnut coffee is gonna be a lot of dishes. Shareholders are getting a dividend who cares. Um, now your favorite topic. Sbti, do you remember spto, science-based Target initiative? Did we talked about this with our new friend? From the UK know? This is a, yes, Danielle cash weighed in on this. But in, in the abstract he was talking about credit ratings, sbti is the organization that sets carbon limits and carbon targets and validates them. They were chosen by the US federal government. Yes, for all procurement and you had a nice hole of the week who was ranting against the company. Yeah. Some that someone who is a LinkedIn connection. It was really upset with sbti and their methods. And all of their arguments got used by Republicans in the house committee on science space and Technology who opened an investigation into sbti in an attempt to basically strip any sort of carbon regulations of suppliers and, or science out of The house science space and Technology committee because we're there in this point in history. Well they announced a couple days ago, a hearing next week, November 14th is the date of the hearing where the only witness. So far is Andrew Mayock, the federal Chief sustainability officer for the Council of Environmental Quality. He's basically the sustainability officer for the United States government appointed by the president appointed by Biden. Not part of the EPA, not part of the EPA know. It actually marks the first time, anyone actually cared about a chief sustainability, heard of this role and know, and it's a man, and it's a man and actually, the corporate world that would probably a woman or a woman of color, right? That's well, his boss is, a, is a woman of college, but may, I actually had 25 years of experience and Obama Clinton administration's. He was at the Office of Management and budget. He was at the treasury Department, he had stints at McKinsey and Bo. Out. And this is always very accomplished human being. We've learned that most leaders come from McKinsey, you know. It's right 7%. I believe we covered here, but not Booze Allen but no booze. Oh, yeah, I just thought that's a funny name booze out. Um, but the prior hearing that the house committee had was attended by. I think, none people, I think no one watched it. No one cares. I might be part of that group. I'm also pretty sure it accomplished none things because it's still, they're still making this effort to kill any effort to decarbonize procurement in the US. Yeah. So SBT, I still under the gun, and this is just going to be a grilling for them. Meanwhile, I have an update from your favorite country on Earth. Why is it one thing is my favorite country? Because it's all, you talk about only because I just have very limited travel experience. If I, if I travel to Argentina how do you know that? Wouldn't be my favorite company? It wouldn't be. It would still be baguettes and cows. I mean, there's a delicious, the cows. I mean, this is actually anti anti woke news. France. I don't know, you're gonna tell me, France, bands, fossil fuel companies from responsible investment labeled funds. I keep talking. What does that mean? So, the French Ministry of the economy and finance launched, what they called? An SRI label in 2016. They had a very, I've had it, it's delicious. It's very hoppy, right? It's like hazelnuts. It is a, it's a label that they put on funds to mark them as responsible investment. So I'll show you responsible. 1200 funds are actually have the label so far and it's about 770 billion in assets under management who they're 1200 funds. Well, these are Global funds that all want to operate in France. So they went and got this label They all utilize the SRI label, those funds. Now, as of this week they passed the rule that they will be required to exclude companies that exploit coal or unconventional hydrocarbons. And any companies that launched new oil and gas exploration and antidepressants anti-tax. That's what I'm saying. It's anti anti-woke, it's funny if you, if you asked me to, if I had to pick like a natural enemy to text, it probably would be friends, right? I thought we would California because it college football, you could think of like New England, because we care about education, you know, friends. Yeah. But that's your anti woke update. That's good. Yeah, ended on a positive. I know, I wanted to keep it short. All right? Because I, we have a pretty long clip of now. Yes. So we talked to now for an hour. Yes. And it could have been longer. I actually excluded my corporate governance Movie game although props to know being now because she then email us her favorite corporate Governor, 30 favorite Corporate. I actually, I'm gonna ask her if we can put that on our website, because it was a, it was a great list and I haven't seen a lot of those films. Yeah, there are a bunch of seen, um, but so we're gonna play a long clip from that interview, but before we play that clip, I did want you to play a very short game. Oh, okay. It's very short. It's a five question. It's a good game. Basically, these have nothing to play the game. I don't know you. I don't know how you're going to do, but these headlines are there were absurd to me. They're not what Wednesday had. My just wanted you to react to them. The first headline, you ready for, you know? Good? Yeah. Okay. Your own version of the good game and I can make it. Am I am I literally scouring it. If I think it's good. Yeah. Or 0 to serve, you made up the game. All asking me how you play. How about the fact that we're recording in our our home office studio and our own fellow Co employees are wearing headphones. They don't want to listen. Nobody wants to hear. That tells you a lot. All right, here's headline. Number one. Heinz rolling out. Pickled flavored ketchup. I'm Not, I'm okay with that. That's I mean, that's a cold relish. Yeah. I was thinking like, it's a way to get the relish sent into your Ketchup. Look, I love a pickle odor and a lot of my snacks and sandwiches. But then again I don't put ketchup on sandwiches. Well, this is not for sandwiches but when do you want for just for hot dogs. Clearly. Oh just for hot dog. I'm okay with this. I'm gonna give a seven. I'm really a seven. Why not? I love a pickle and I love a. I do put catch up on my hot dog. Let's be no here very Chicago. What pickle flavor is? Oh okay. It's just vinegar right? Oh I love vinegar. It's all it is. So all you basically yeah because it's already got vinegar in it. That's all. And probably these snuck in an extra teaspoon of sugar because they're high. Yeah, because we got to get addicted somehow. All right, all right. I wanted to start you off on a high note so that it can all seven. I feel good about this. Can all get mixed. I just love, I don't think it's a society. We talked enough about pickles, I would agree with him. She's sort of taking over but just a good pickle. I mean what? Well I mean, Jesse is constantly drinking kombucha, right? That's really, there's like cooler from a fermented things to talk about but what about the old-fashioned pickle? The pickles. The same. All right, the good points. Yeah. See, thanks. All right, let's get dark fast. Okay, here's a headline. Elon musk's new chatbot is astoundingly vulgar now. Now, this is the good game, right? Isn't this good? Because no one will use it. Except for the trolls that are sort of in his field. Here's what I don't understand about Twitter is that it's still seems to be used by Just Sports journalists and regular. It is a lot of journalists, but why, why are they not quitting us? I I feel irritated by that. Without them, it would just die, would it not? I think it would be dead for. Well, it would be dead for anybody with that isn't purposely a troll. So you Are saying it's good because it's a perfect place for it to go and linger and die. Yeah, exactly. And plus wouldn't it just be everyone would look at a new chatbot that's vulgar and say you're right. These definitely need to be right here, right? I don't think we did predict this, but Weird that the the effect of Elon Musk buying Twitter, is that nobody cares about Twitter anymore? Isn't that weird? We don't talk about that much. Yeah. I guess, I guess I agree with you because you can't stop Elon from doing anything because he has no oversight any of his companies. Oh no. He's just. Yeah, so it's good. You're saying it's inevitable. It's gonna happen anyway so why not just do it there where it is? All the assholes are already together so yeah. I'll give it a six for that reason. Yeah, I like that. See, I think I talked to you into that. So why not? All right, here. Ready for the next headline. Thousands, it is another Elon headline. This one may not be good. All right, all though, I'll tell you why I picked it down. The other one wasn't good. I was going along with your logic. Exactly. Yeah. Um, thousands of people are reportedly lining up to have a portion of their skull. No, no, no, no. And one of Elon musk's brain chips and planted. Wait a minute, here's why? Oh, because I know you gonna say something about the people. Yeah, we're waiting them out. We're just Them out. He killed monkeys, we know it's horrible. We know like so is the does the chatbot act as the surgeon like that if that's the case, if the surgeon who's doing it is using the chatbot to communicate with the patient in that case, it's a definitely a tent. There's no gonna yell at them and berate them and we have no evidence of the chatbot is the surgeon in these cases, although we don't know if there is a surgeon, or if it's just Elon, that's true. They don't say I don't like anything about this, but I do appreciate what you're saying that catch here. The caveat here is the people lining up. They this study was only open to people with specific disabilities. He's not even paying these people, right? No, they want. They said they won't pay for any of the cars through his pockets. He couldn't find any Loose Change, I don't. But most of the people who were signing up they have to have a specific disability. It's not like a guy. No no. I I pray for complications. I got you. What you're saying? But I just Feel like giving it a zero. I just okay zero but I do appreciate ya game. All you are right technically, but I just want to give it a zero. All right, so here's two more left. Yeah, A newspaper giant tried to diversify its staff white workers sued God. Yeah I love these because it's so absurd. But tell me why like, what like did they lose their jobs? Oh, they didn't know they just objective to the presence of a more diverse Workforce. It's a class action lawsuit because a highly white Workforce, what the management decided they should diversify and the white people said that's discrimination against us. Okay. Let me ask you this question. How did they promised the the white people were there that they would? There were about to hire their identical. Twin brothers. Know that was not in the contract. I don't, I don't think I feel their own son. This one, I'm not feeling this one. I know tell spin this. Why do I feel like this is good? Well because it's so it's it's it. We're basically Crossing like we're jumping every shark now where white people in who are the majority of the company think they're being think they're actually the majority they think they're being oppressed, right? Like by even mentioning the idea of bringing somebody else in, we're, you know, two, two. And hager's point were shining a bright lighting. Yeah, I I'm trying to get over my hip and immediate feelings of depression. I mean, I'll give it, I'll give it a three only because only because you're right like that. They're so knee-jerk. Reacting to this without any Thoughts, or any kind of planning, it does make them seem like idiots. Yeah, yeah. Like like, it's like the first snowflakes like the, when the bald guy in the UK sued for being called the ball. You see word? Oh yeah, he was seaward. And he sued for not the same sexual harassment. He suited for sexual harassment, because he was called bald. Yeah. All right, your last one. The headline is so long. Seattle, Amazon founder. Jeff Bezos says, he's moving to Miami tax Haven. Right came in Ireland. Well, that's what everyone's talking about tax Haven but from Cuba know, right? Where is he from? I don't know where he's from. Parents are Cuban. Maybe I don't I did. I care very little about where he's from. In fact, I care very little about where he's moving. Except that, isn't this? Like a good for Seattle. Yes, absolutely, right, absolutely. Like he's now no longer in Seattle. Yeah, where he wasn't really paying taxes. Anyway, it's funny that the image of Seattle and I think this is proven by, you know, who they're voting record and the types of politicians, they elect is very opposite to Starbucks in Amazon, the two. Most famous things that ever came out of Seattle. Yeah, well Starbucks, Maybe, On the Seattle. Yeah, Starbucks is out of Seattle out of the Pike Market, right? The original Starbuck's. It was stupid. Like they served coffee, but both companies don't do a very poor job representing representing stakeholder interests. They don't have a Seattle Vibe about them know, exactly. Anyways but now they're effectively a victim. Yeah. I think they'd be, yeah, I'm I gonna give this a 10 for Seattle. Wow. And maybe a 10 for Miami because I think they like these types of people now. I mean, like they love billionaires who avoid taxes and have a kind of a trumpie Sheen to them. We also have to acknowledge the incredible irony of a man who started the climate fund to fund to stop and climate change. Moving to a city. That is basically going to be decimated by climate change on that map for the short term tax incentives. That's going to say. Yeah, so like they'll be, they'll be even less. A tax is going to these programs that could actually, yeah, you're right. Yeah. All right. So that means are very quick. Our very short good game is over that I win. You won, you came in of the score of out of zero out of 10, 10 being good, they were being bad. A 5.2, okay. Are you judging the the tenor? The tone of my responses, are you actually just averaging my response? I'm just averaging responses? Yeah, better. That would have been better if I was purely average. All right, speaking of purely average, let's bring in someone, not purely average. Let's bring it. The very average queen. This is the clip from our interview with the great element. If you want to hear the full interview, get the show tomorrow. We'll drop the full interview. You should download it all you really should, you're gonna learn something. So here's now minnow. My dream ever since I had been. Was to rate Boards of directors, like bonds. You know, there was a Idea that you just automatically vote for the for the board. But of course the board is picked by and payed by, and informed, by the CEO, and some of them are better than others. When I first got into this business, it's hard to believe but OJ Simpson was on five boards. Yeah, definitely is one Comcast right a lot of committee. Yeah, he was on the audit Committee of Right. Even know, anything more about auditing, you know, then a toddler. So that would be the kind of thing that I would explain to, to the shareholders. I said this should be a risk factor for you. If somebody puts OJ Simpson on the audit committee that isn't because he wants the audacity to do a good job. And so, and there were a number of people who were on ten boards. And that was not good either. So I said, you know, let's and, you know, they have to tell you whether they attend at least 75% of the meetings. and, If they don't, you know, maybe that's something we should respond to in some way. So, I said, so, so the corporate library only began with this idea that we were going to rate for Boards of directors, in terms of the risk that they provide for investor. Well, we couldn't get any investors interested in it, but A, we did get. I thought this was the greatest Market test in the world, the director and officer liability insurers interested, right? And we were very good at predicting, bad. We were not good at all, predicting good, but. But if you can tell people what are the riskier Investments? If you can explain that to them that, in addition to the traditional indicators that they look at that they've got, you know, the OJ Simpson problem, or something like that, you know, that's a value. And my dream was that the DNA liability insurance would walk into the boardroom and say, well, we're raising your premiums because Nell says, you're a terrible board and I love that and that kind of, that kind of happens. So, yes, so that was the corporate library and that, that was we did that for quite a while. The reason why I started with the corporate library because I kind of want to, you know, to now that we're 20 years later, at least from the corporate library. But we even further from, of course, when you met Bob, The anti-esg anti-walk Movement, we don't really know what to call it over here. This is a topic that we didn't think we would be covering when we started our company. But now of course it is a, you know, a weekly occurrence and I know you testified in our Congress recently matte and I watched together and loved your testimony but Um, quick thoughts on the anti-esg movement, like is, okay, it's not could, it could have you predicted it? Like I, yeah, go ahead. It calls itself, an anti-esg movement, but I'm calling it that, I don't know. Yeah, that's fine. It calls itself any and anti-esg movement in the same way the Anti Reproductive Rights people, call themselves pro-life. It's a, it's a fake term and it has nothing to do with anything. And even the people who call themselves anti-esg are pretty much okay with G and and some of us. Well, that's the joke. Yeah, that's our joke is that they are ESG analyst. They're just. Yes, I have different ways to all of the fact. And, of course, that's true. And, you know, who is one of the biggest in terms of rhetoric? One of the biggest anti-esg figures is presidential candidate ramaswami. But his financial disclosure show that his personal Investments are very yes. She started in anti-esg fund, which is underperforming and he started in SG proxy advisory service, Which is far, as I can tell, only has one client. And as far as I, I asked them for a copy of one of their analyzes, but they didn't send it to me and I'm under, I've been told their analysis is just vote with management. That's that's what Promoting. So, you know, it's it's just completely phony. It is hugely funded by the fuel, by the fossil fuel companies. And it is absolute baloney and I have testified for congress many many times. I'm used to being asked very tough questions, I enjoy that because to be honest with you, I do the stuff 24/7. They do it one week out of the year, it shows. And can I just say it? Definitely shows. And those hearings. Yeah. But in this case they didn't ask me hard questions. They just pretended, I wasn't there. And every time the four men who were testifying on behalf of the Republicans said things that were absolutely not true. I would say, well actually, for example, they would say they love this term. They would say glass Lewis, and I assess our duopoly and no one can compete. And I said, well, as a matter of fact, presidential candidate, Rebecca Swami as a side hustle set up this competitor. So obviously that's not true. I said, I've done it before. I could set up one in two weeks, right? And the easier now than it was when we did it because believe it or not, we had to get everything on paper. They didn't have everything online. We had to get the proxy statements and male our analysis out on paper. We had a Derek's machine going. All the time. So it's a lot easier to do it now and also the industry has been established. It's a lot easier. I said that that's ridiculous to say that a duopoly or, you know, so, and and they would talk about the incredible burdensome of shareholder proposals. And I would say, give me an example of a shareholder proposal that you think is not legitimate to be voted on by the shareholders, they don't have one. You threw out a stat during the Congressional hearing about like, you know, you're really talking about like 2% of all proposals, like, 98% are just directors and you're talking about it for the, like, the top 50 biggest companies in the world. Yeah, right. Like like these are the people who are the most well-funded. So when you're talking about like the difficulty and responding to a shareholder proposal, you're talking about who Amazon's difficulty or what, what are we talking about, exactly, that's what they that's what their lawyers are there for. And when they say, you know, there's I said there it's self-reported, they say it costs us this amount of money to respond to these things. That's not an audited figure. I think they just made it up so the and the number they made up I actually frankly was something like Hundred and fifty thousand dollars or 600,000, it was like less than a million dollars per proposal to companies that literally are making billions and billions a second, right? Like, what are we talking? Why wouldn't you want to know what your shareholders think? It's non-binding worst thing that happened is 100% of your shareholders, vote in favour of the proposal. And then you go tell them, go back home. We'll see you next year, you know, I mean, it's absolutely ridiculous. And with particularly galling to me, is that the Republican party, which is supposed to stand for free markets, and economic regionality, is promoting this sort of Nanny State idea that the smartest Financial. Experts and the world. Are so ignorant and lazy that they cannot evaluate. What does this is? What makes our head spin constantly? Yeah, I guess it's the true irony to me, is that one of the pioneers of corporate governance came from the Reagan Administration. And I enough said there, that's Bob monks and now we're flash forward to the future and the party of Reagan is now trying to. Yeah. Trying to bring corporations. It's a it's a funny irony. Yeah. But like that. Both working, I'm a Democrat. But we met working in the Reagan Administration. Right. I mean a credit where credit is due here because like Vivek was on our show before we announced his run obviously. And and one of the things when you analyze strive, I know like this is something that like sustainalytics our morning star did but they'd actually didn't look at the director votes. They they don't actually vote entirely with management. They vote out in a two-to-one ratio women on boards, they actually tend to find powerful women and the data is showing us that they target powerful women in vote, no against them. Now, they're so pitifully small as to not make a difference, I'm sorry. Yeah. But but, and then you have and you wrote about this, the Microsoft proposal, you know, then the national league. Like, it does seem that there is a war. Like, there's a very clever sort of, underhanded, war against any brown people, people who identify as women, it is a social construct to mask. What you showed as like the fossil fuel Industries funding of this. And I'm wondering if it's just a distraction it's it might be the most brilliant distraction tactic ever. Well I think The things that drives me, bananas. And that I've spent like the last I when I think back and the end of my life and the pandemic, this is what I'm gonna think about. Because this is what I spent my time doing different during pandemic, is that the fossil fuel companies and other corporations have created dozens, possibly hundreds of these fake groups with names like Franklin Institute or the national Center on legal policy, and they're all funded by the same people. They are run by the same people and And they, they file comments with the government on rulemaking that appear to be coming from objective private, think tanks that are absolutely Bonkers. And with regard to the children proposal that you're talking about at Microsoft as happy. The duck independently came to the same conclusion and he wrote about it on his blog too. But yeah, it begins, you know, the if you just look at the proposal itself, it looks kind of legitimate. It says you know we want to have some some information about gender disparity and hey you go. Okay. And then I said, I better look at that one and so I look at it and it goes into this thing. About how It's unfair for women who had to decide to have children. Yeah, because they make less money. Well, you know what? That's a big societal problem but it's not correct to say that there's an incentive to get an abortion and you guys can I pair something? You said no on LinkedIn because to me, it's even worse than that because it's the language I use. Is the most odious language I've seen today and this is from the national legal and policy Center. And the quote is from, this is from The Proposal women who choose not to abort their pre-born children. I mean and you also called out using the term transition and quotes. I mean, this is really the most Insidious thing I've seen. It's just pure hateful theater, it's crazy. What is in Adobe for the national Center on legal policy or whatever it is, you know, really It. Well, first of all I can tell you. It's probably as I said in what I wrote, I'm predicting it will not get enough of a vote for resubmission. Okay, holders are smart and they do things and but yeah it's it is we've been tracking these and they're all like what? Matt. They're like below 1%. A lot of them, right? Oh yeah. The average of these is abysmal. Yeah, yeah. Can I can I interject one other thing? I did some research on this group this morning and they have a, they have a section. This is a national legal, impulse Center, they have a section and this is the parrot. Your point map about targeting women and targeting people of color. They have a section on their website about their highlights about the targets of who their attacking and they've they list 20 people since 1993 roughly, 11 of them are people of color eight or women. And since 2019 five out of the last six targets have been women of color. They are They are systematically targeting, but look a specific no, but I'm saying like that's the game, right? This is like it's not an anti-esg thing. They're they're going after a segment of our population. It's right there. And they're highlights. And and and yet they called themselves, the national Center, a legal policy. Yeah. National white National, I suppose, I don't ya. No. But seriously, like, it's right there in the data, they present. Yeah, yeah. No, they're yeah. And and I, I in an attachment, an appendix to my testimony, I had a letter that I wrote to my old office at the office management budget, which many people don't know this outside of Washington, but they are kind of the quality control on a conveyor belt of federal regulations, everything has to go through them before it goes out and that's a good thing because it makes sure that there's consistency between different Regulatory Agencies is a good, it's a good deal. But anyway I said I said to them here are the names of some of these fake groups that you guys are giving credibility to and you're meeting with And you need to know who's behind it. And what I recommend is that when Federal agency is proposed rules because they have to propose a rule and get comments before they can make the rule final. That they should say. You don't have to tell us who's paying you to file this comment, but if you don't, we're going to keep that in mind. Yeah, yeah well comply or explain kind of a version of that and the funders if you look at Source watch you can see who's behind the national Center. There are two groups, they're unlike in the same office, the national Center on legal policy and the national policy Center for what they say. And that's another thing. If I, if I were spending a hundred thousand dollars to fight, Cheryl der proposals, I would have taken those two to the SEC and said, this is the same group under two different names, you know, knock it out. That was now minnow. yeah, it was I mean, by the way, Nell's already agreed to come back on the show. Am I making that up? I think you made that up Alison, Taylor. Did agree. Come back and we haven't even really know. No, no, no agreed to be back. We're gonna give Nelson data. I want her opinion on the data because she did say that her dream was what we built her dream, was for our company to be successful. I think she's, I think that's basically what I speaking of success stories. Let's ask kids. Yeah, that's great. Paul Hudson from Esky? I will say skh is absolutely success story. I mean, it's a, it's a, maybe a company you haven't heard of but when you should have so much great, yes, she did a big. I mean there are over 100 employees now, right? Yeah, I know it makes me sad for myself. Yeah. But Paul finally found a parking spot. Here's Paul. Hello there pole, Hutchinson with the skates statistic of the week. This week, we're going to look at the pay ratio between CEO, to median, employee pay, as reported in both the Russell 3000 and these people 500. Now, you may think nobody really cares about CEO to book a pay ratios, but Somebody must have done. Otherwise, nobody would be disclosing it. so, just looking at the pay ratio initially, for the Russell 3000, the range is 9,416. Excuse me. Let me just see who that is. Our potential spam. So, going back to the pay ratio for the Russell 3000, the range was 9,416. So up to 9416 times, The median employee compensation, that's the multiple for the highest level of difference there. The mean of course is much lower 164 times. So the average pay ratio is 164 times the median of employee pay and the median again is lower. At 84 times median, employee pay. So as you can see, the the ratio between CEO pay and median employee pay is relatively wide. Even at the lowest point there, if we switch to an analysis of the actual total compensation figures, we can put this in in some reality. So what we're looking at here is mean average CEO annual total compensation of 9 million 424,000, whereas that compares to the median employed total annual compensation of 199,000 um, when we're looking at medians, we're looking at a median for CEO annual total compensation, 6 million 822,000 compared to median for employees and your total compensation of 75,000. So that's for the Russell 3000. If we look at just the S&P 500, I think we'll find that those figures are somewhat different and probably more extreme. So, just looking at the total compensation again, looking at the, the average. CEO annual total compensation, 16 million 579,000 compared to 88,000 for median employee total annual compensation at the average there, so that's actually lower in the S&P 500 than it is in the whole Russell Street house and which is a statistic that I wasn't expecting to have found. Um at the median, the median CEO, annual total compensation is 14 million 181,000 and a median employee annual total compensation of 76,000 in that case slightly higher than that found for the Russell 3000. And if we just look at the pay ratio for the S&P 500, the range is actually lower than for the Russell 3000. It only 5,414 times, but the mean pay ratio is higher at 263 times and the medium pay ratio is also a lot higher than the rest of the Russell 3000 at 184 times. Median, employee pay Now, companies are allowed to make adjustments to the calculation of CEO pay and median employee pay. But the vast majority of don't a minimal 2.4% excludes certain elements of CEO compensation, and even less companies, 1.2% exclude non-us employees from the population, in order to calculate the required median. Employer commentation. But 92.8% make no adjustments whatsoever and just follow the basic calculations laid down by the SEC. So, that's Paul Hodgson signing off with the Skagit statistic of the week. That's it. That was a great pause in the even greater. No offense. Paul Nell Mino Ross. Gerd Hazel. Um which is I'm on the scale? Yeah I think I'm gonna call you hazelnut from now on because you drank that terrible thing for free. I realized soulmate already we are free float. Come back tomorrow, get the full interview with now it is an hour that won't be wasted if you listen to it and I'm gonna be honest with you I actually was not bored. I get bored very easily. I'm not kidding. This is why we don't just take any random guess for our shows. We are selectively. I I looked up an hour was gone. Matt was like you know we gotta give her her life back. Yeah I was still as I said I didn't even gotten to the stuff about the movies. I still enjoying the conversation. So there you go, I think you're biased. She's in Maine know, she's in DC. So oh that's all we got for today. Come back tomorrow, get the interview with now and come back on Friday. When we wrap up the week with the full group until then, bye.