Transcript
oh, Live from a white guy, support group called, the glass ceiling maintenance crew. Tonal new terrific, Tuesday edition of business pants joined by analysts whole Matt mcgard. On today's lead director stained golf khakis. Called April 28th. 2026, the boardroom buy-in game. I don't what? What is this? This whole game. I'm already tired from all this. Our show today is being sponsored by Free flow analytics and free flow, analytics.com. The only platform measuring board power connections to Performance for free. Yeah, that's this is true. And you know what? I just had my conversation, angry with them, by the way. Now, I got my, I had my talk this morning with their Tech Team. Yeah, and yeah, and it's update. Is that like it's it's it was an issue in the back end. All the date. Is there. We just it's just I gotta tell you. I, I don't I don't like to yell at things that are free. It's like yelling at the sidewalk which I don't do because, you know what, trees happen and Roots happen and I trip. It's like that's life. And that's how I feel about free flow analyst.com recently, a lot of tree roots popping up. But I did as you'll hear from the show, I had a lot of research to do or I should say the writers had a lot of research to do. That's right. And I and they did that platform to be up and running because it was difficult. I gotta tell you, don't worry, it will be coming. Yeah, it's coming. And it when it comes, it'll be instantaneous. All right, so, here's what we did this week. So, in our schedule, Today should be the bad game where I find horribly Disturbia and depressing. Headlines, and I asked, Matt to tell me how bad they are, but I couldn't handle it today. Okay, and Matt suggested to me last week that, you know, maybe it's time to revisit. We used to have this show called the blowhard index where we tried the tie the market to our world, right? Because You know, like it or not, despite the fact that people believe in US morally and ethically, they deep down, they just want to make money off of all this. Whereas that's that's not my point of view here. I I think we're well beyond just sort of selfishly making a dollar on stocks and I think we should push World Views a little more strongly but I decided to take Matt's, you know suggestion, seriously for once and I thought how can I, how can I tie the headlines to actionable Market decision? How can we Teach potentially users how to interpret move moves, and headlines, and new directors, and new CEOs, and then how can they look at the data and make, you know, make actual portfolio decisions. That's what I mean. This is like, for me this is as nerdy and market-driven as a guest because I'm not even I don't even own stocks. So I just, I want to back up really quickly and just say, don't blame this on me because I know whatever happens. Look that I don't want to own it, you know we yeah. Okay, fine. It is, I am, but I am afraid. It's gonna be really boring, but maybe if some of our listeners find this to be useful, please reach out to us. Yeah, I know. You're out there. I know you occasionally, reach out, let us know me. Maybe this is a new feature. You want us to focus on, maybe this could be its own show too. Because you know, just like the proxy countdowns its own show and it's really for those hyper nerdy, smelly institutional investors, maybe this one could be for High for white guys. Support group retail invest, I don't know. Yeah, I've over explained it as I usually do. All right, let's let's go works. I'm gonna press this and you're gonna give me the first. Yeah. And you don't know anything about this, you know, nothing about the preparation of this. You have no idea. Why me and my team spent the last two days, riding this and working on this. I never know why you are your team do anything. So, yeah, so again, I just took headline to the last few days that we tagged in our database. The first one and these are pretty normal headlines. These aren't Sensational, the first one is Regal. Red Nord Corporation names Amir Paul as new CEO now. It's actually wrecks Nord but even the headline writer. Thank you. The company name it. So you see what I mean? Like, In the world of, I don't know this, this Institutional Investor world this retail, investor World, ESG world. I don't know that people know how to they don't. Do they know how to operate when they're, there's a new CEO. Do they know what to do? I still help them. Let's try help. All right, so this is the boardroom buying game. So I'm gonna give you in or out. it, I'm gonna give you a bunch of in, or out reasons and you can pick one. You can tell me if you're in on this Docker out and you can pick any reason I gave you. I'm just giving you several different cases of why this could be in row. All right, I mean I'm already riveted. So let's I know this is terrible in because the former CEO is going to resign from the board and oh, that's Lewis Pink. Give me a 24 percent influence, he's gone. He's actually leaving the board, so this could be an opportunity to move on if you like, I'm your poll. I'm in. I'm buying on that. I like that. So, should I just skip the rest? I have no, I I'm gonna go step by step. Okay? Then and I'll choose, but like, I already a good sign is when a CEO leave, and they all so leave, like, I'm so tired of the CEO leaving, but never leaving, but Frankfort. L is still an executive chair of the board of Target after. We've been talking about how he's been gone for almost a year. At this point, he's ruined all the Goodwill. I mean it's really nobody goes to Target anymore. Thank you, Brian Cornell but he managed to cash out into an executive chair role. But I just like when they said, when they say they're leaving, they leave. So I'm buying and look for users of the database. And I know you're out there. If you can't handle is one data point. You can handle, it's the influencer percentage. So, on the board, It's broken out by how much influence they have over the board and that's one that I think you can wrap your head around. So when you're trying to, maybe you're you're voting in or out people or maybe you're you're talking, you're engaging with the company. You know, if you see someone who has outsize influence and you don't like their background, you don't like the other stuff. They're up to. You don't think they're successful. Then you should Target that and try to get in new voices. So to this point, this guy's leaving 24%, influence, let's move on. In. Are you in on this? Because of the chair, Rakesh, sash Dev. Now, this guy's interesting, he has 15% influence on this company. He sits on three other companies where he has all his a minimum of 13% influence on all of them. Including axalta. Coating, her Holdings edgewell edgewell personal. This is look, this is A purple, dude. This new CEO I you know and but you know maybe you don't like this maybe it's over boarded maybe it's too too powerful but I just thought maybe this isn't in a powerful chair. As a counterbalance. Yeah, Counterpoint well. I mean, look, I think it's a little this thing. This guy has a lot of high influence jobs. Yeah, it's a lot. I mean, at some point doesn't he say okay, I really don't need all of these jobs. I don't think. Have you seen this how? I level of influence to it four different companies? This is impressive. Hey, the only time you actually see it is when like somebody's like a family member at two different companies. For some reason, right? Like struck me as an outlier in this case, Are You intro? I'm out I'm out because he first of all, he has he's been there for 18 years at some point. It's like, okay, you can go away, you don't? We don't need you forever either, just like, I don't need the same video forever, so, yeah, I'm out on him. All right, I say out on this next one, the company announced that the CEO succession plan was happening in October of 2025. And I'm asking what took them so long. And and why did they, why did they avoid their bench? They had Three strong guys in their bench, they're paying 9 million dollars for this new guy to come in is, I don't know this. This seems like a succession failure. I don't know how I feel about this. I I don't know why you go external. So are you? Maybe you just don't trust the succession planning again. You maybe you're out because you think they should have pulled from that. They get a pretty deep bench here. Yeah. Well first of all you like this is another reason why I'm glad I was out on the chair, Rakesh Josh Dev because you've been there for 18 years. It took you nine months to figure out who the next using know, is, you've never talked to somebody else at the company. You figure it out, who might be the next CEO? What the fuck are you doing? Is the chairman and just last year, they hired, Kevin long, president Automation and motion control, he came ten years at Dover Corporation. I'm just thinking like why do you hire this anymore? Why is he not? Like I just yeah it's a little confusing. So I'm looking for a sign of maybe this board doesn't notice doing and look you have to trace these things back to her a source too. Maybe you don't like the new CEO higher because you don't like the board. They don't like the existing Board. Maybe that's part of it. I think, actually, this is this is instructive of boring. I can make this. Yeah, the most boring show we could possibly make, ya know, but they, they announce if you snarky show ever in October 29th of 2025, right? They announced that he was leaving the company. This the currency CEO would be leaving the company. But when you look at the actual board, when you're looking at like, who's on this board, how long they've been there, this board has three people on it who have been there for more than 15 years. Yeah, with impressive backgrounds. Yeah. Can you explain to me as an investor what you expect those people to be doing if not knowing so deeply. The bench that they can replace the CEO at a drop of a hat, they can just place to CEO but not only did they not actually Go from an internal bench. Yeah, they they actually had no fucking idea who they would choose and waited, you know, eight months to even thinking and spent nine million dollars to find him and not only that. What are you doing? I really had a lame duck CEO situation, where you you potentially, have you have a guy who's leaving? He's leaving the board. Probably doesn't care what's happening at this place anymore. You know what I mean? He, he already has his. He knows what golden parachute. He's walking away with because he signed that contract, you know, years ago and years ago. So you put you leave it, a guy there for nine months, he doesn't. This is like the end of The George W, bush presidency. It's like where he was just like painting rocks and his ranch or something, you know, it's like, what a ways. All right, let's go. Keep going. Now I got I I got very nerdy on this. And I actually looked at some of the data msci and I know not everyone has access to that day but maybe you do and yeah, msci is no free float giving out free data. Yeah, that's true. But you know, we have some similar people who were I know some of the people who work with us or like us also use their data I say in. Because a mirror Paul spent years at Schneider Electric, which is a, which is I look at their profile, their their AAA company Ms. Which means that they're just, I guess according to them. They're great and they, and there's two things they do really well there. They over perform their industry and opportunities and clean tech. Ah, no I should say. That's the that's the one thing I'm looking at opportunities and clean tech, they weigh outperform their industry. Whereas Regal rexnord way. Underperforms and I just thought I don't know if you're into ESG stuff. You're into the environment sustainability. I just could be a win. You're gut. You're getting a guy Schneider Electric. It's not American, right? You're getting a guy who was a different sensibility? So maybe this is a win. Maybe this is an in. Maybe this is an invest I are you asking me whether I care about msci's? Yeah, you can text again. This is the most sincere show I've ever done. So help me out here. You Can say, no, go and let's just move on. I don't have any opinion about the clean Tech score from msci. I mean, I well I wonder if some of her listeners do I'll say in because I know there, maybe somebody maybe somebody very smart was working on this company and yeah, I can trust them. All right. Finally, on this one, the new CEO, a real election started. I say out because the board is way too entrenched. And you made this point earlier that chair Rakesh Sasha, we have Curtis stolen, Stephen Burt, All at least 15 years of tenure. I think maybe this can work if you had gotten rid of them. Because they seem like they're in the way of this new CEO making decisions, forget being in the way. I I'm out on this company overall, okay, this is an easy out for me because if you are Basing this entirely on the management. What what the management has told you is that, when the CEO after six years, decides to step down, first of all, six years is not very long, right? So a year, that's being a lame duck. So, with a year, being a lame duck, right? So, you have, you already have a problem that suggests that like the CEO didn't like it there or the board didn't like the CEO. There are three people on the board who have been there to choose the prior seat belt. We're not prepared. We're not prepared to choose the next CEO. Yeah. And effectively telling you that and didn't choose internal basically admitting that they don't have an internal bench, that's any good. So what are your job as an investor here? If you're analyzing the management team, it's not just to say like oh they're cash flow is really great. I should buy the stock, it's to say, does anybody fucking know what they're doing? And this company is? It seemed like it seemed like it does it. I'm a hard out. I'm It out. All right, that's how the game works. Let's move on this next one. You probably won't take us seriously, but it's a headline. And I just, I'm rolling with it, okay? Everything's too silly. You know, I take it UFC CEO and I look, I have already out. Yeah, I know these things are silly, but these are, these are, these are companies are these are publicly traded companies. In our in the database here you have CEO. Dana White says that the shooting at the White House Event was awesome and he took and he quote, and he took in every minute of the incident. So, Dana White, for those of you don't know, CEO, at UFC, which is owned by Tiki Holdings. He's also a board member at meta at Facebook. He is one of the underlings on Mark Zuckerberg's board. So I thought let's weigh in on this. Are you in on both Tiko, TKO and meta? Because Dana White is Dana White? This is perfect for those companies. He's right. Oh, I mean, this is what you want at these companies. Wow, I don't know. Maybe you're investing in these, bro. Heavy companies. I remember we had a listener years ago who wanted us to talk about like, Rick's Cabaret. It was like ah, yeah. They wanted us to cover the anti woke companies. Right, I don't remember why exactly. But maybe you're into the anti-wolf, maybe you invest. Know you do you flipped it on its head, right? Like, as in as it like, so my initial reaction is always like Dana White's the CEO. He's he's supposed to be like, like, I don't know. A dude who is controlled and composed and knows what he's doing strategic. And maybe actually saying the shooting was awesome is his version? That's exactly the type of CEO you want running TKO and hey being on the board of meta. Hey, if you're still invested in any of these, any of these monopolists dictator tech companies and that is what you want. Otherwise you should divest from all that stuff. I don't care. I don't care that it makes you money. I think it works at TKO. It doesn't work it. Meta. Like he's is what you want out of meta. A guy who's like oh cool. We just live streamed shooting, but that's cool. But that's what Zuck has become since the Trump does. That's what you come. But we're not. Zuck. We're investors so you are in the company, you enter out on Dana White being Dana White I'm gonna say in. All right, let's move on. And on, are you? Because we're talking about tkos Aria manual. Yeah, meta platforms Zuck. These are, these are two of the most known assholes on the planet. And I'm not making that up. Aria manual. Had a character based on him on a TV show, on HBO, we're known to be the world's biggest asshole suck. You know, everyone knows and loves, and because they hate him. So, They handle. They get that. So they both have complete control. Their boards are Emmanuel. 67% influence suck at 68% influence, let them do the running of the company and Dana White can do all that he can do all the stupid Sideshow, right? Yeah. But I'm not as an investor so I'm a hard out hard out on totalitarian board and the free flow. The back data right? Like not on the platform but the day you can get when you're an Institutional Investor or you're paying investor or any kind of the they have a deference score. Have you seen their new deference score? Yeah. It's got like 40 data points in it and it's about like it covers everything. From how much did you get paid while you were on the board? How dependent are you on management? How prestigious is this board? You know how connected is this board? Are you similar to the CEO? Are you do have connections in common with the CEO? There's no there has to be 20 data. Is it going to it effectively? The end output is saying, what is the likelihood that you are just deferring to management as a board member? Yeah, which if you're an investor, you don't want a board member who just defers to management your. Your job is to pick somebody who defers to you the investor, right? Like you're the one who owns the company. Sure. And Arya manual. And Zuckerberg have artificial control of the company. They don't have real, they don't have economic control. Artificial control somehow there are a lot to do that. I'm a hard out on everybody who's on those boards. All they are is differential board member. Just sick of fans. Although, how about your out just because Dana White is a liability. I mean, there's they have major sponsors like Disney, right? How was Disney going to feel? So Disney's already in a battle now because they want the Trump wants. Jimmy Kimmel fired because, you know, Jimmy Kimmel's telling jokes now Maybe they should get dinner, maybe Dino white should be fired. Because, again, companies, like, Disney are still major, Sponsors. TKO right. Well, it's it's a good, it's a good point of the double standard, but that, I mean like Jimmy Kimmel Trump hates and Dana White Trump loves. So, does it really make a fucking difference? Like I'm I'm not outer in on that. That's just is now, how about? And then finally let's look at the board of TKO so and I basically had the same thing presented twice. You're either in or you're out because these are this is this board are maybe the most serious douches in our database, right? So TKO. So first you have already a manual, he's the founder CEO and chair 68% influence, he's known as being like the number one asshole of Hollywood. You have Silver Lakes Eagan Durbin. He's a VC, bro. And Elon Bud. He's a, you know, Michael Dell buddy. There's so much bad. You could say about this guy. Total VC, bro. You have TKO c-o Mark Shapiro. He is he's just like everywhere. Where there are bratty, boys, the TKO. He was at he was ever. He was Endeavor with Six Flags at one point. Yeah, he was an Endeavor with Elon and Egon when they're both in the board. Dick Clark Productions. Papa, John's used to be a director. That's where the racist. Papa John, Schnatter, Six Flags. Okay you got TKO lead director, Steve coonan. He's the CEO of the Atlanta Hawks which is just in some Scandal because they wanted to have that celebrate a strip club as part of a family night at the Hawks game but player protested and they ended it. He used to serve on the boards of WWE in GameStop. I mean this board is like uncontrollable douches. You have a wrestler called The Rock and say what you like The Rock. But I mean, come on. What are we doing here? You have former WWE CEO? Nick Khan And then you have nepo baby. NFL Braddy boy, Jonathan Kraft, who's the son of bobcat? The owner of the patriots, who Bob, you know, You're happy if you're a Patriots fan but Bob is involved with so many cycles. So every every account of Robert Kraft is that he's a, he's a like, a narcissistic asshole that yes. So I mean this board so take it either way. Are you in on this board because this is exactly the board you want at a man at a man, baby company. A controlled? I mean, all controlled, I'm not being this right. Okay, I'm out on this. I'm not investing and whatever that, but anyone who has Tiki, oh, TKO and your portfolio, you you gotta look in the mirror and then start punching the mirror. Right at your nose just start punching it, just something wrong with you. It's really bad, not just about returns people, you can move on just returns. All right, let's go forward. Egg names. Eric Anderson, CEO. As former CEO Peters of feno moves to Executive chairs. So he's staying. So are you in? Because you're getting the CEO a new snow or CEO? I'm not in you. You were, if you were yeah, if you're such a great CEO and you step down And you become executive chair. Like you didn't step down. Why don't you just stay the CEO? I because you don't feel like it because it's too much work because you like you can make the same amount of money and do less. Like, what is can someone explain to me the point of executive chair? What? Yeah, get it seems like executive chairs. Very ego-driven these days. It's almost like you can't there, they don't have the power to push them out. That's not feel like that. Who doesn't have the power like it, the Dual class comfortable. The board doesn't have the power in the former CEO wants to stick around for the ego for the possibility, Boomerang back, and for the executive salary and but every every board who's put, who's allowed their CEO, to become an executive chair, it doesn't suggest. They don't want the power to they have no desire to do their job. Yeah. Which is relieve them of their fucking job. Yeah, the job I grew with you. All right. I this is, I can't, I can't get over how dumb it is. Well, let's play the msci game one more time and oh, score last time I do it last time, I promise. Yes. Do you say in on Eric Anderson? Because here the things that aeon Thrive so he comes from aeon and here's where they Thrive. According to msci, climate change, vulnerability, human capital development, privacy and data security know. I don't care, okay? You don't care. I was gonna say or you out because actually aigs already strong and exact same places. Why do you need this guy, right? I mean, according to the data, first of all, like, so not to get wonky. But I know how most of those scores are actually derived, and it's not that I'm not getting anything out of it. I think you already answered this, but are you out because former CEO? Peter zafino is a, just a massive presence in the border. And this is not your normal. Former CEO to become executive chair, he holds, 32% of board influence. It's a third of the of the influence, and you also got some people behind him. Lead, director, John rice and Diana Murphy, Linda Mills. They all have 30% influence combined, 30% influence. I this new CEO was just not gonna have room to breathe. So you out because of this, but I think you already answered this. I mean, well, I'm out, but because of that. Yes, but but I think, you know, in this case I what I do like is that John rice, who's the leading independent director only is has a four-year tenure Which, which is unusual unusual. Yeah, in, as much as it's less than 10 years. Well, this board actually has a very low tenure across the board. Which is impressive but also maybe less impressive because the egg basically was bankrupt for, you know, like five of the years that they, you know. So like how many years 10 year? Could you have on this board? I'm not really sure. Yeah, but I will out because I can't do this this outsized personality. You know, before I move on and narcissism, would it change if you're looking at the data, free flow analytics? Does it change your mind? If the former CEO only has like, 10% of the influence? Is that? Okay? If they stick around, is it more at least? Why? What do you get? I might just ask question. My question is always what do you get? Because if if you love the old CEO so much that you want to keep them around and they want to quit, they want to quit. Then let them fucking quit. They're not going to do their job well or just keep them as the CEO. Convince him to stay on for another two years. I don't understand this interim thing in which this some of them are indefinite interim, things where See like the CEO sticks around. Imagine if the president of the United States was like I lost the election. I will no longer be president but I will be happening right here. I will be present executive president chair and I just don't give any ideas. Yeah I will sit next to the next president and tell them what to do without being present. Probably how they're gonna run next. That's probably how Trump and whoever just walking. Insane. Right? Like it is insane. All right. Finally are you again, similar. Are you out because of crappy succession planning? Why are they ignoring their bench that they didn't disclose the golden hello yet? You know, it's going to be big because it's egg. He's an external higher but you know, confusingly, they have a guy that just a young guy, he hasn't been there very long. Charlie Frye. He's an EVP, reinsurance and risk Capital optimization, then you have a guy with the perfect name to be CEO. Ajay, his name is John Hancock. I mean, that's the best name ever for But listen to this guy, he leads Eggs three, business segments, North America Commercial Insurance blah, blah, blah blah. He previously LED Aegis International commercial insurance and Global personal insurance. This guy is he knows egg He's also comes from Lloyds where he was his responsibility. Lloyds of London, where his responsibilities included oversight of performance and risk management globally So, it's like you had a guy right there. John Hancock with a perfect name? Well, I think you got three things going for you, first of all, he seems eminently qualified, second of all right. He his name is very CEO. Like, and third of all he's a dude, right? He's a, he because one thing, you fail, that it wrecks, like the Regal, Rex and order whatever. Well, was you had Brook Lane? You unless Brooke is a is a dude's name, I think Brooke is a guy's name. Is it really? Because all the options have to be man? There's no way we're putting unless the company is really, there's Brooke is a man. Oh yeah, unless the company is failing, we couldn't choose them anyway. I don't like what this this one feels different because there's no one to obviously blame. It's not exactly like this CEO if they're making the announcement that the CEO is stepping down and moving to Executive chair and and they already have a new CEO, right? Like they did some succ Shouldn't planning. It probably means they vetted those people on the bench and decided. We, they want to go external and the other situation that was, they waited nine months to fucking pick somebody. It means they hadn't done anything and they and the board member been there 20 years. So, I'm okay with this one. I'm okay with this. Let's move on. What is this? The boardroom buying game? I hope this is instructor for somebody that is the weirdest game you've ever caught. I know this. So like so sincere this game. Like there's no. I I'm so uncomfortable being sincere. Like I there's no room for sarcastic and there's no room for dumb jokes. It's just, I have to just play it normally. I know somebody's Hardware is like thanks God, they finally said something serious. It's hard for me to be a normal human being Pearson CEO. This is a real like this is a real classic that real classic headline that I don't know that. Any institutional investors regular restaurants know how to operate how to work off of Pearson CEO. Omar a boss. She's up for auto desk board seat as another director exit. So, this is just a simple new director on the board. Omar a Bosch auto desk, I say, are you in? He comes from Microsoft's industry Solutions, I don't Desk Company. AI software company. Omar is the guy for you. He's a Hall of Famer, according to data freefloat data, The guy he's replacing Stephen. Milligan is like a hardware guy? And this is a software guy, and Steven is a rotation player, according to our data. So, Omar is a star, so you're in on Omar. So, wait a minute that I want to, I want to. Can I Head. Yeah, it says is up for Autodesk board seat as direct exit did not say appointed. Yeah, yeah. I don't, I can fall through on that the sea. Like, if that's misleading. I but I think he's slated to join. I mean, he's not he will be He's nominated. So so you're right. So maybe he's not yet on the board, maybe he will just appear. I mean, you're getting into the weeds here but it sounds like he will appear on the AGM docket and he shareholders vote on him. But as we know, they say yes to everybody. Well it's it's fascinating because right now on the Autodesk website it does not have him on the board. He's not. Yeah on the board yet and Milligan is still on the boarding Milligan's leaving at the AGM. So so how often do we actually see? A director named. Who isn't immediately like when they named these directors, when they put out, the press release is, it's just to say that he was already appointed to the board and he will serve on the Nom committee or yeah, or whatever it is. It doesn't say eventually, this is the guy for our board. When that other guy leaves, I might be hard in on it, not because of who, just because of that. Because honestly, what you did was give the market, you know, until at least the next AGM to figure out whether Omar a boss, is somebody to the even want on the board, right? It's a fair point because I I do complain about this all the time is that especially when they put directors on the board right before the meeting. Like just let the showers decide. Yeah, this is this is actually a situation which they've They didn't put them on the board. They said he will nominate him like him, like a normal Direction supposed to be nominated. I like it. Are you out? Because this board has a director named Jeffrey Epstein. Oh that's it, though is Well, first of all he goes by Jeff Epstein. He better. And second of all, he works at Bessemer Venture Partners which is one of those VC, bro, of course, as holy, you know, we invest in all the AIS and all the things and prior to that he was at Oracle under Larry Ellison and and he was part of the double click Mafia. There's a group of people that work to double. Click your double click. Yeah. That was bought by gargle to like in their advertising. Yeah. Part of the ruination of the internet. So I am not in on Jeffrey episode. Okay, you're out. Are you in? Because this is a good sign. The chair, Stacey Smith 12% influence, former CFO. Intel, you know, we're placing a hard work guy with the software guy sounds like the chair is, is doing the Right Moves. Are you in on the chair move here are you? Well, I'm sure I like that. The chair only has 14% influence Stacey Smith. Yeah. But but that usually means that the CEO has a whole lot of influence. So maybe I don't like it, I don't know. Look, I'm looking at their pictures right now. Yeah. And it does look like a CEO of white. Bald guys. See, I tried to beat you there. I thought maybe you would say you're in because it's good to have a female board, chairs important, but you're but Stacey actually to do. But you said CEO of CFO of Intel, there's no way that was going to be a girl. Okay, so I tried I tried to like because I, you know, I don't I say, you ignore the short term stock returns if Your thing is diversity in leadership and just go for the, go for your ethics, go for your stance, but it's about on chair. Stacey Smith. I'm out on him. How about that? Let's talk about AI stuff. Are you in? Because so, Omar is a CEO at Pearson, which they doing AI in education. Autodesk is trying to get into AI, integrating AI into urban planning and architecture. And you know, we talk about AI in cybersecurity and so few boards have any of this expertise. So are you in because Omar brings some ai ai credentials and well. That's a double-edged sword because I hate AI in education at all. Yeah, of course. Like it's literally destroying brains know, it's like there's actual studies. Now that show. It's, it's lowering cognitive ability and it's probably because when you consider who develop who's developing AI? It's a bunch of Dropout Tech Bros when when you thought of integrating AI into urban planning all so scares the hell out of me. I mean are we literally going to like everything's gonna fall out of the sky and and yeah, I'm out. I'm out. I'm out on. It's not, it's not the AI thing. It's the, it's it's for the AI, it's because of the AI that I'm out. But let's let's give shareholders a break here. So you, as you said, they actually get to to support or vote against this new director. He's not already being appointed the board so let's enter out. So I'm going to say is this an out because Omar is the CEO of Pearson and Pearson is doing its own AI transition. How is this guy gonna have time to care about AI Autodesk? I mean, he's just there. I mean, don't you think that some directors are just there because it makes the board look better and smarter? Do you really think this guy's gonna spend time? Trying to fix Auto desks AI when he has his own. He's the CEO of a company trying to deal with AI. Well, I B I actually named maybe, just fluff. I'm isn't that most bored know at this point. They just but this is why I question having people who are act like I questioned, like, Tim Cook's role on Nike when he's the CEO of Apple. It's like, how does he have time to care about selling some Air Jordan's? Well, I mean we can go backwards and basically say like, all right, let's look at who's first of all, didn't auto desk. Have some, what's that Autodesk that Auto Zone? They had some like, like Scandal thing, didn't they that where they probably they missed cash flows like that there was like some, it was some accounting Scandal that they had in 2024. So you think that instead of getting a guy that she can't get more, I think they should get a guy. Yeah, I think they are somebody who. So I'm out, I'm out. ah, and then finally Replacing AI guy with a hard work guy, right? That's what they're doing ostensibly. My Hardware guy. Yeah. Was Western Digital, right? Didn't they make like a hard drives? Yeah, external hard drives. Okay, but my question is this Is this suggesting? That Autos desk is about to blow all its money, on AI and fire. Bunch of people is this a bad sign? Maybe you're out on voting for this guy because you don't want to turn the snap or something, you know. I don't think that's gonna happen. Mostly I try you. I don't like Steve Milligan, is almost bald and Omar is totally bald. But so I actually just think they upgraded the hair saving money so that Jeff Epstein Blake Irving. And the other bald members, it's very bold board. There's yeah, there's three men who are bald men. Yeah, three and a half. It's very bald. Boy, I'm out. Trump's idea, just buy bankrupt. Spirit Airlines draws GOP backlash. We don't need to do anything here. This is a bad. You want? I have a few things. You want me to walk you through what I did? What I found walk me through a thing, you're going out and everything you're in because they, they haven't a reconstituted board in the last year. I was looking at my bankrupt. Yeah, second time. They went bankrupt, right? Oh yeah. But there's CEO. Dave Davis, first of all, great name for a CEO. Dave Davis, Dave, Dave, 45% influence, that's incredible. This is his company. He rescued son country, which was a small Airline I think in the Arizona somewhere. So Maybe this is your dude. Maybe this is a good guy to have, right? You're in because of this guy, maybe aren't they? Declaring bankruptcy need a loan. Okay, so I'm gonna keep trying with you on the company. All right? Are you in? Because they have direct and All Star Robert Milton, he's a former chair Air Canada. He led the restructuring, their Are you in on that? They. So, they bringing in restructuring people because it's a bankrupt place at Spirit, right? Yeah. And now they're bankrupt again. Is this part of the restructuring that declare Bank? Yes. Second time in two years as a potential investor helped me out with this so I just presented the case of two board members there who have that experience. Now, I'm going to I'm almost gonna present the cases of two NEOS. You have CFO Fred Crowe He's presiding over Spirits. Second bankruptcy, restructuring under two years and you have CEO. John Bender, rightis. He's been there since 2017, so he's been there during the spirits entire decline engine issues labor disputes service meltdowns bankruptcies. So Those two NEOS stay. The board gets reconstituted. Where are you on this? Well, so bankruptcies are weird thing, because the people I've talked to about bakeries. So first of all, you children? Yeah, mostly my children most so, like Robert Milton, the former CEO of Air Canada. You want those guys on the board because you want somebody who's done the restructuring before you, that's usually post, bankruptcy the boards. All get reconstituted with people who are rescue agents, right? In fact, free flow was asked at one point to tag directors as bankruptcy board directors. Not people who were on the board when it went bankrupt, but who joined the board after the bankruptcy, or part of turnarounds, right? Because you want turn around Specialists on these boards. Part of that is you can't fire the entire Neo staff. Otherwise? Like there's nobody there, who knows the company while you're trying to turn it around, right? So there's this weird moment and they haven't had more than a year and a half to actually get through. This this is weird moment where you gotta like, keep around the guy who sucks horribly in order to turn around the company. So I don't really know how to land on this. I am not in on Spirit Airlines because I think we're just Airline and I'll just say the last out was Trump thinks it's a good idea, so maybe you're out on that. It's, I mean, it's well, here's the thing if I'm on honest. Yeah. If Trump is investing the money and you are investor, doesn't that mean like you? You get in and then you sell the stock as soon as it gets a trump bump that. Yes, that actually is part of it. Yeah, that's a good idea because he's a horrible deal maker, but you can make money off of it. So, I'm gonna say in on that, I'm gonna say, all right, I mean, it's clearly remember everything I've heard when I traveled over the last years is, it's also just a horrible Airline. So it's like, what a great airline to Let Die. I mean, if you're gonna let one like, If you're gonna let one die like, you know, they saved Intel right? Yeah. But Intel like had what 10,000 employees, something like some high number of employees Spirit Airlines. How many employees could they possibly have a couple like 100? Like, and they're probably not making a lot of money, like throwing bags and plays. Oh, let's just end this horrible game. This is the boardroom. Buying game with one more headline. I hope it's been instructed to somebody. Snap a points. Doug hot. As new CFO, ho TT, Doug hot in. You're in because Doug hot is coming from Amazon. Who understands addicted. Addicting people addicted customers better than a cup from Amazon. Right now, I'm in for his name. Doug. You know his name. But so then CFO, Derek Anderson's leaving. But he also came from Amazon. So that so we have one failure from Amazon, one guy from Amazon, saving the company. I mean, Where are you on this one? Oh man. So so the Amazon guy, replacing the Amazon guy. Yeah, I mean kind of a kind of imagination. This is company, we know. Right? None. None, none, none imagination. I'm out now, are you in? Because finally, Evan Spiegel, and Robert Murphy who they combined 80% influence here. They finally, they finally found someone willing to do it some dirty work, and make decisions. I mean, these two, Evan, and Robert are pointless, and they, they found someone David Doug. Hawk comes in fires, a bunch of people that you know that so maybe you're in. Oh yeah. Has someone to do something. Yeah, I mean on his executioner, specialty just came from Amazon where they executed like, you know, 1000 of employees there, too. Well, or are you about this one though? Are you out because the former CFO Derek Anderson is baling right as the company announced layoffs and faces of his pressure for my rent, a capital. So maybe it's a bad sign, right? When he bails The bad sign is does Irena Capital know that they can't vote? Yeah. What what influence evidence Bob is what they can do. I get really gonna call Evan and Bob and be like do what we want? Yeah I'll be out. I mean this one's messy because The reports are that the Evan and Bob needed irenic Capital to realize I needed to fire CFO. Derek Anderson Derek Anderson has been there forever and it sucked and they needed an activist investor to come in. I mean, these Evan and Bob just don't seem to do anything. Is it really the cfo's fault? That okay snap doesn't make money. All right, I'm I'm out on that. That's how do you feel about investing in a company that brings in a CFO and has them immediately fire. Everyone. In that person's going to be hated by everyone, feared by everyone. Is that a company? You want to invest in? That's, that's do you think anyone at snap doesn't know, Evan Spiegel makes every decision? All right? Like I don't care about that. I don't think so. Yeah. And then finally something we don't talk about very often when talking about snap. Are you out because of who their cherish? And this chair has 8% influence, which at this company is significant. This this is probably the only adult in the room with power on the board. His name is Michael Lynton. And let me tell you who Michael Lynton is, if you so you in and out on this guy's your chair for the future of snap. He's been there for a while, this dude. Was the CEO and chair of Sony Pictures. For about 15 years and part of that tenure is when the studio faced what is widely considered the most devastating corporate scandal in Hollywood history. The 2014 Sony Pictures hack this is your chair at Snaps. Are you in or out on on this. I am in on it because it doesn't matter who the chair is. Okay doesn't matter at all. The question is did this game matter? I think the question I had some momentum in there but I don't know. Is this a four is this a viable format? Much. Is it too boring? I don't know. Let's let the listeners answer the question. Somebody please somebody and tell us whether it's Like changes in the board to parse executive to look at succession playing differently. Look, if I'm summarizing here, I'm out on Regal, Rex North, I am out on UFC TKO, Dana White, right? I'm in on egg, I am out on Pearson CEO and I'm, I'm kind of in on Spirit Airlines surprisingly. Yeah. And I'm definitely out on snap. I mean, here's my, here's my point here. Here's the major thesis. Could I hear people? And I look at LinkedIn, I don't hear people because people know when actually reaches out, to me to talk to me even though I think I have some answers, I lurk on LinkedIn and people are complaining about all kinds of things. Make some decisions if you don't like do a thing. If if you think succession planning sucks at a certain company and you worry that it took a year and there's a lame duck CEO or you don't like executive chairs. I saw someone complaining about. Why do we have executive chairs hanging around with a former CEOs. Make it action item. But making these decisions people don't just complain about it on your LinkedIn feed. That's not enough. Convince others to vote people out to make decisions. Just everyone call Damien, that's all we got. That's his Gary. We are free float. That was our Tuesday. Something something that I feel about that. I didn't have Thursday. We've got to practice countdown to Friday. We're gonna wrap up the week. We're talking about Affleck on Thursday speaking. Oh sure. You come back for those until that goodbye.